Hops for an ESB, just a quick question

[harrymanback92]

Just wanted to pose this to you guys:

I'm making an ESB tomorrow, and I'm basing it on my Bitter recipe. Basically this is a big version of my bitter. My bitter recipe is loosely based on Ska Brewing's(from Durango, CO) ESB recipe; which they sent me as part of their news letter. I wouldn't say this is along the lines of Fullers ESB, but it is certainly an ESB. So here's what I'm working with (I made some changes to the Ska recipe):

10lb Maris Otter
.75lb Crystal 60
.5lb Crystal 80
.25lb Victory
.25lb Belgian Biscuit
.25lb Flaked Barley

90minute boil

FWH with 1.5oz Williamette(4.6%)
.5oz Northern Brewer(8.6%)-60min
1oz Northern Brewer(8.6%)-10
1oz Chinhook(11.1%)-5min
.5oz Williamette(4.6%)-0

Pitched onto a Wyeast 1968 yeast cake.

Mashing at 154F for 90min, mashing out at 168F for 15min, and sparge at 170F.

Estimated OG:1.063
Estimated FG: 1.016
Estimated ABV: 6.2%
IBU: 49.2
SRM: 14

My question is this; hows my hop schedule? I don't wanna take it over 50 IBU. Should I save the .5oz williamette for dry hopping? If you were gonna change anything what would you do? The grains are purchased and milled so I can't change that; however I can in the future and plan to continue brewing this beer until it's perfect. I'm just alittle unsure of how I'm hopping this brew. Also, I'm thinking of collecting a little extra sparge runoff and boiling that down from around 2 or 3 gallons to .5 gallons, then adding that to the wort once both are cooled-would this be a good idea? I'm thinking it'll add a nice caramelized complexity to the beer, but I've never done this, is there any benefit to doing so?

 

[david_42]

Personally, I would never use a hop like Chinook in an ESB, nor would I dry hop one. You are also above the ABV range for an ESB, but not by much. I'd drop the Chinook and not replace it with anything. Adding caramelized wort would also mess up the flavor profile. An ESB should be on the malty side and sweet, but not caramel

 

[harrymanback92]

So what kinda flavor do you get from caramelized wort?

Ska uses Galena as a late addition in their esb. I've read chinhook is a substitute for Galena, and I've used it in my bitter and find it to my liking. As it gets added around 5min it's more aroma than flavor. To each their own.

I don't mind be .2% points over, as I also don't trip about brewing to style. I tried to make clear that im brewing an American style ESB, as this is more based on Ska's ESB, rather than say Fullers. I think with my grain bill I'll be having quite a bit of malt character.

 

[Yooper]

So what kinda flavor do you get from caramelized wort?

Ska uses Galena as a late addition in their esb. I've read chinhook is a substitute for Galena, and I've used it in my bitter and find it to my liking. As it gets added around 5min it's more aroma than flavor. To each their own.

I don't mind be .2% points over, as I also don't trip about brewing to style. I tried to make clear that im brewing an American style ESB, as this is more based on Ska's ESB, rather than say Fullers. I think with my grain bill I'll be having quite a bit of malt character.

A caramelized wort gives a strong caramel flavor, like making toffee. It makes a pretty sweet tasting beer, with a sweet finish. Chinook is pretty harsh, but if you like it that's fine. I'd probably use the willamette later for flavor and aroma, and not FWH as you should have enough bitterness without it there. I love willamette in an ESB for flavor and aroma both. I'd keep it at 0 minutes, but also move (or eliminate) the FWH addition unless you want it there simply for the IBUs.

 

[harrymanback92]

I've heard that fwh gives a really smooth bitterness, and adds aroma and flavor with the bitterness. I know this is a debate that's been done to death, but I haven't fwh'd my bitter(or an esb) so I think im gonna try it.

I had one of full sails LTD (can't remember the number) but it was a smash with Maris otter and Willamette; I felt like the Willamette was delicious for bittering. With the hops I want to use, would you consider using a different hop for bittering? If so, what? I think the chinhook would be too strong unless it was an aroma addition, but maybe the northern brewer would be a better option for fwh/bittering.

 

[Yooper]

I've heard that fwh gives a really smooth bitterness, and adds aroma and flavor with the bitterness. I know this is a debate that's been done to death, but I haven't fwh'd my bitter(or an esb) so I think im gonna try it.

I had one of full sails LTD (can't remember the number) but it was a smash with Maris otter and Willamette; I felt like the Willamette was delicious for bittering. With the hops I want to use, would you consider using a different hop for bittering? If so, what? I think the chinhook would be too strong unless it was an aroma addition, but maybe the northern brewer would be a better option for fwh/bittering.

I don't get flavor and/or aroma out of FWH, although I do get a "smoother" bitterness so I FWH most of my APAs, IPAs, ambers, etc. I just use the bittering hops as FWH.

I think with chinook and northern brewer as late hops, it would "cover" any delicate willamette flavor and aroma even if you did get some from FWH (which I don't agree that you do, but that could be up for debate).

I like northern brewer hops a lot, and think they come out really nice and smooth with a nice "woody" undertone and that's a great choice for both bittering and aroma. A more traditional ESB would not have an ounce of chinook late in the boil, and I don't have any experience with mixing chinook with willamette, so I can't really say if you'll notice any "willamette-ness" over the chinook- my gut is no.

 

[harrymanback92]

Hmm you're probably right. I may leave out the chinhook, I've brewed my bitter 3 times with chinhook, but never with williamette(which is a hop I've recently come to love) so maybe this time I'll leave out the chinhook. I think my beer will be plenty bitter without the chinhook. I'll be brewing tomorrow so if anyone else would like to join the discussion please do. By no means is my mind made up one way or the other, but I'm certainly rethinking my initial stance.

 

[bullinachinashop]

Here's an idea,
How about mixing in some EKG's?

I love to experiment, but what I'm seeing looks more like an American Amber and really an extreme one at that.