Brewed up NB's Bourbon Barrel Aged Porter 9 days ago. I used 1 packet of Windsor (rehyrated). My OG on the kit was 1.062 so I know 1 packet was pretty close to the limit for that beer. I mashed in the mid 150's to purposely leave a little higher FG. So, I know between Windsor (which finishes a little higher) and the mash temp I'd get a higher FG, but I was hoping it would be lower than 1.030 8 days after brew day. NB said in an e-mail just to give it another week. IME, beers USUALLY get to their FG within a week of brew day. The sample tasted and smelled great, but I was hoping for an FG around 1.020 - MAYBE a TAD higher. I wrapped a wool blanket around my primary and gave the bucket a gentle swirl in hopes of getting the yeasties active again. Do you think gravity will drop this week? If not, should I call it done or would you make a a starter with Windsor and add that? I am not crazy about adding a different yeast strain at this point.
Hoping Windsor will drop gravity
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Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
My opinion is that if you fail to see a drop after rousing and giving it a couple more days, a yeast with a greater apparent attenuation than Windsor will be required. Any ester based flavors your Windsor yeast imparted are there to stay.
The blanket would get you a warmer fermenter while the yeast are active but now that they have quit, you need to move them somewhere warmer or add heat. The blanket is only good for helping to maintain temperature, not warming.
Mid-150s for a mash temp isn't specific enough, perhaps. The difference in fermentability between 154 and 156 or 158 can be significant. If you ended up at 156 or higher, I wouldn't be surprised by a FG like that, with Windsor.
thehaze
Well-Known Member
I've used Windsor and will continue using, but in order for it to drop under 1.020 you need to mash low 147-149F for at least 60 minutes and you also need simple sugars in the boil. I got between 70 and 72% attenuation with Windsor, even with 20% specialty malts ( Brown Ale, Porter ). Works well for ESBs, but again, mashing low and using simple sugar.
I think your beer has finished fermenting. Windsor usually is finished in 2-4 days.
You could trying throwing some S-04/Notti in there, if you think that will help the beer.
I think your beer has finished fermenting. Windsor usually is finished in 2-4 days.
You could trying throwing some S-04/Notti in there, if you think that will help the beer.
tegman
Well-Known Member
I have the NB Bourbon Barrel Porter in secondary as we speak. I got down to 1.027 the first few days and bumped the temp. By the end of the second week I was only down to 1.024. I only saw a 1 point drop in that third week to 1.023 FG. The sample tasted great when I racked to secondary. It wasn't as sweet as I was expecting. IMO I'd rack it onto the oak/bourbon and remember this for next time. If I brew this again I'll use S-04 or Notty.
OG-wan Kenobi
Arcane Artisanal Ales
Hit it with rehydrated S-04 that should chew a few point off for you 1.030 is high
I'll probably check the gravity today as that will be three days since I saw it was 1.030. We'll see where it's at. Would adding rehydrated S-04 cause any iffy flavors or simply perhaps a few more points of gravity "chewed up"? Ideally, I'd like it to be 1.020-1.025, but taste is more important to me than ABV so I'd rather have it be 1.030 as an FG with its current flavor than risk some odd taste in hopes of raising the ABV half a percent.
Windsor is the only yeast that I have used that seemed to stall. At 2 weeks I was at about 1.030 at three weeks it dropped to about 1.027. It tasted good so I bottled it. It did take three weeks fermenting. This was a couple of years ago and my FG notes are not good, so the gravities are from my questionable memory.
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
S-O4 will often get nasty tasting unless you can keep the fermenter at or a bit below 64 degrees.
I am pretty confident I can keep it at that temp, but maybe I'll just let it sit on the nearly dormant Windsor for another week or two and see what happens. To add more yeast or not to add more yeast... that is the question.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
Its supposed to be a bourbon barrel porter, so now you have the option of adding bourbon to taste to help balance out the residual malt sweetness.
I usually use Woodford Reserve combined with Jack Daniel's barrel chips when I want to add woody bourbon character.
What was the starting fermentation temperature?
Now is a good time to brew another porter or maybe another style, and dump the fresh wort on your existing yeast cake.
I usually use Woodford Reserve combined with Jack Daniel's barrel chips when I want to add woody bourbon character.
What was the starting fermentation temperature?
Now is a good time to brew another porter or maybe another style, and dump the fresh wort on your existing yeast cake.
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Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Nottingham is cleaner and more appropriate given that allegedly it and Windsor came from the same multistrain.
I threw in some rehdrated Notty this evening per the suggestion of my LHBS. We'll see in a week if it did anything. He said it SHOULD get it down to 1.020 or close, but if not, it will NOT result in any off flavors. So, I figured I have nothing to lose minus $4.
Notty should help. Windsor only attenuates to 50-something percent usually. That's what it does. If you don't like it, then use something like Notty.
Well, hopefully today the airlock shows some signs of life, but more importantly in a week the hydrometer reads something close to 1.020. Now, the next question is if the gravity gets to 1.020 is this yeast (combo now with Windsor and Nottingham) worth harvesting or is that "creating a monster"?
thehaze
Well-Known Member
I think Windsor and Notti are a good combination. I just used it today in my Dark Ale and will use it again for my Brown ale later today.
thehaze
Well-Known Member
Windsor, despite its poor attenuation, is estery and I like those esters. The yeast makes good English style beers ( for a dry yeast ). When you now add Notti - which is rather clean - it will eat some of the sugars, without changing the esters. Those were produced in the first days of fermentation. I don't think it's counterproductive, if you are going for a more estery brew.
FWIW, co-pitching Windsor and Notthingham sequentially is advised by Lallemand, quoting from their catalog:
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
Just 1-1/2 days ago I co-pitched Windsor and SO-4 (one full pack of each) in an Oatmeal/Milk Stout. Fermenting nicely at 64 degrees.
Well, here's hoping the number is lower than 1.030 when I check this Friday. If it's still at 1.030 I'll just accept it and move on. I'm assuming the Notty would do its thing in a week, yes? Is there any reason to give it more than a week to do its business?
thehaze
Well-Known Member
One week is plenty for the yeast to eat whatever sugars would possibly be left in the beer, if any.
Maybe I'll just check it today and if it's at 1.030, I know nothing is (or did) happen with the additional yeast. If it's less than 1.030 then I'll let it sit a few more days as Friday would mark the week since I added the Notty. Brewing up a batch of chocolate milk stout today with oats and going to add some cold pressed mocha coffee to secondary.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
As I say, it's allegedly going some way to recreating an original brewery multistrain. The only caveats are that you are losing the ability to give Windsor a "head start" over the Notty, so you won't get as much flavour as pitching Windsor first, and dry yeasts seem to drift more quickly than liquid yeasts when repitched, Nottingham in particular seems to be a blend of yeasts whose composition drifts on repitching.
Not counterproductive at all, it's completely normal in British breweries to have a mix of strains whose strengths and weaknesses complement each other. Usually the ones that are good from a technical point of view (attenuation, floccing) tend to be kinda boring from a flavour point of view, and vice versa.
I'd be a bit cautious letting S-04 near lactose, given that we know its lactate metabolism is kinda unusual. That doesn't mean it will be terrible, but you could be giving it exactly what it needs to pump out lots of lactic acid, and it doesn't usually need much inviting to do that even with normal grists.
I find that passage a little odd - that using S-04 with lactose could be problematic. Northern Brewer defaults to using S-04 with their chocolate stout which comes with lactose. I'm brewing that recipe with that yeast today.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
As I say, it's just a risk based on what we know of that particular yeast's biochemistry. Maybe it's fine, maybe the big multinational just hasn't thought it through properly and doesn't really care.....
Gasp.... no way! Say it isn't so!
There's too many Northern Brewers around here.
At least one of them cares.
Cheers.
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
Well, if that's the case, then it looks like I may have goofed this batch up big time. My luck. This was the batch that was supposed to yank me out of my brewing funk.
Well, the Notty did NOTHING. It's still at 1.030 - 5 days after adding the Notty. So, I just went ahead and racked it over the bourbon soaked chips and there it will sit for a month. Still tasted good. It will just be a "session" bourbon barrel aged porter.
I took another gravity reading about 5 days after having racked the 1.030 beer onto the bourbon soaked woodchips. I used about 1/2 a pint of Maker's Mark. When I took the reading it was 1.022. Is that because of the booze? Or did the fermentation somehow take off again? I'm going to let this beer sit 'till about mid-December before bottling.
I guess you introduced some oxygen during the racking and the yeast liked that and started to work. Congrats!
TechFanMD
Well-Known Member
So I brewed the same beer (but the extract version) as you at approximately the same timeframe. I did bump up the OG with 2lbs of light wheat DME*. Mine stopped at 1.030 just like yours. I swirled and eventually pitched some US-05, nothing.......1.030 was as far as she would go. I added 16oz of Makers Mark (that the oak chips had soaked in) and of course that made the gravity reading lower, as you experienced. I doubt you had additional fermentation, and that the gravity was due to the bourbon.
I've made this before, and you can bulk age this a long time at this point (no need to rush to bottling in mid-December). I wish I had brewed it in the Spring for Christmas, as it will still be young at the holidays. By Valentines day it will start to hit its stride, and improve through the next year.
*I added the extra DME because I previously did the 1 gallon version of this kit. They send a 1lb bag of the wheat DME, but you're only supposed to use half......I missed that part and used it all. The beer was fantastic. In reading reviews, a lot of people were doing that, and some then doing it on purpose. When I brewed the 5gal kit I wanted to closely replicate the 'accident'. I'm glad I did, since if it is going to stall at 1.030 it might as well have started higher. This tells me, at least for the extract kit, that the undermentables (to Windsor) was in their LME.
I've made this before, and you can bulk age this a long time at this point (no need to rush to bottling in mid-December). I wish I had brewed it in the Spring for Christmas, as it will still be young at the holidays. By Valentines day it will start to hit its stride, and improve through the next year.
*I added the extra DME because I previously did the 1 gallon version of this kit. They send a 1lb bag of the wheat DME, but you're only supposed to use half......I missed that part and used it all. The beer was fantastic. In reading reviews, a lot of people were doing that, and some then doing it on purpose. When I brewed the 5gal kit I wanted to closely replicate the 'accident'. I'm glad I did, since if it is going to stall at 1.030 it might as well have started higher. This tells me, at least for the extract kit, that the undermentables (to Windsor) was in their LME.
Yeah, I know the beer probably won't be that good until at least Valentine's Day, but I planned on bottling some up so I can sip on some during bowl season. I'll probably sip on some during March Madness and then try to stash the rest (not easy for me) until Christmas 2k19. Thanks for the feedback TechFanMD and Miraculix.
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