Hop Bursted Rye Pale Ale - Critiques Welcomed (All One Pound Increments)

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

Having a credit at Norther Brewer burning a hole in my pocket I put together the recipe below using full 1# increments to brew at our annual HBC camping trip. Between the NB credit, shopping on the cheap, and using leftovers, I'm spending around $20 out of pocket.

I brewed a Rye Pale Ale a while back, and used it as the basis for my recipe. Thanks!

*Updated recipe*

5.5 Gallons
OG Est 1.051
FG Est 1.013
54 IBUs

60 Minute Boil
60 Minute Mash @ 154°
WLP007 Slurry at 65° for 10 Days
Misc: 1 Whirlfloc Tab @ 15

• 6# 2 Row
• 2# Rye Malt
• 1# White Wheat
• 1# Caramel 40
  
  
• 4 oz Falconer's Flight @ Flame Out - 30 Minute Hopstand
• 4 oz Falconer's Flight Dry Hop for 5 Days

 

[chickypad]

Looks good to me. I say brew it up!

 

[mongoose33]

I have a Rye recipe that is excellent; yours looks like it will be excellent as well.

Mine has
9# Maris Otter
3# Rye Malt
6 oz. Chocolate Wheat
4 oz Flaked Rye
1 Scoop Rice Hulls
1/2 oz Columbus 60 min
1/2 oz Columbus 20 min
1 oz Styrian Celeia 10 min
Wyeast 2112 or WLP810

The Chocolate wheat adds color and some head retention. Mine is *very* Rye forward, yours will not be so much.

Kind of wondering if the Rye will be lost in the hops. I'm sure it will be tasty, not sure if you want to feature the Rye or the Hops.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

Kind of wondering if the Rye will be lost in the hops. I'm sure it will be tasty, not sure if you want to feature the Rye or the Hops.

That was a concern of mine as well. Almost wondering if I should either up the Rye (malt or flakes?) or move more of the hops to flame-out/hop-stand?

 

[mongoose33]

That was a concern of mine as well. Almost wondering if I should either up the Rye (malt or flakes?) or move more of the hops to flame-out/hop-stand?

I've been thinking about this for a while. That, btw, should tell you how easily distracted I am.

Anyway, the more I think about this, the more I wonder if very hoppy is a very good combination for what is a rye spiciness that in some ways seems to mimic hoppiness.

I'm not a huge hop-head, and the Rye beer I brew doesn't have a ton of hops in it, but it has a spiciness that, to me, presents in some of the same way as hops. It starts smooth and then the rye spiciness hits home.

[And I should note that while rye is described as "spicy," which evokes an image of tabasco or something like that, to me what Rye presents as is more akin to hoppiness than spiciness, though to me it's a fuller taste than hops. FWIW, and YMMV.]

So I'm wondering if the extreme hoppiness that you're defining with EIGHT ounces of hops will drown out the Rye. Increasing the Rye would give it a fighting chance, but at some point you might lose drinkability.

If you haven't ever brewed with Rye, I'd suggest cutting back the hops and seeing if you like the flavor Rye brings. I like Rye whiskey (which is why I was interested in brewing a Rye beer), but what I tell people who drink mine is that if you like Rye, you'll like this, but if you don't like Rye, you wont.

Had a neighborhood block party recently, at which I offered up my Rye beer as well as a Vanilla Porter. One neighbor really liked the Rye, had 3 bottles of it. He disliked the V Porter. Another neighbor exactly the opposite--likes the V Porter, doesn't care for the Rye.

Anyway, if you go forward with this, perhaps we might find a way to do a swap? I'd like to see if my anticipation here is correct.

 

[specharka]

Rye and hops play exceptionally well together, you just need to moderate the bittering to a modest BU/GU level so the bite of the rye doesn't clash with the bitter aftertaste. I would personally ditch all the late additions in favor of a massive hop stand and dry hop additions. And 20% rye is right where you want it -- not too dominant, but more than subtle not to be overlooked.

As an aside, rye and Brettanomyces are positively made for one another, as it is one malt whose character will stand up to the ravages of +90% attenuation. Simply incredible combination.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

I would personally ditch all the late additions in favor of a massive hop stand and dry hop additions. And 20% rye is right where you want it -- not too dominant, but more than subtle not to be overlooked.

As an aside, rye and Brettanomyces are positively made for one another, as it is one malt whose character will stand up to the ravages of +90% attenuation. Simply incredible combination.

So you're saying to skip every addition (including the FWH) and split them between the hop stand and dry hop?

While I'm interested is using Brett, unfortunately, I don't have the equipment to dedicate to funky/sour beers.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

Anyway, if you go forward with this, perhaps we might find a way to do a swap? I'd like to see if my anticipation here is correct.

The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards a massive hop stand and dry hop, though me thinks I need a small (neutral) bittering addition.

And yes, we can work out a swap.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

So I've been considering adding 2 lbs of Extra Light DME to this. My thought is that the additional gravity points will help counter the IBUS that'll come from all of the late hop additions, particularly the hopstand, as well as help the Rye stand out against the hops.

This will definitely put it in IPA style range, which I'm cool with, I'm just wondering if anyone has experience with or thoughts on this? Should I go with 2 pounds DME, 1 pound, or just say the heck with the DME and stick with what I had planned?

 

[mongoose33]

So I've been considering adding 2 lbs of Extra Light DME to this. My thought is that the additional gravity points will help counter the IBUS that'll come from all of the late hop additions, particularly the hopstand, as well as help the Rye stand out against the hops.

This will definitely put it in IPA style range, which I'm cool with, I'm just wondering if anyone has experience with or thoughts on this? Should I go with 2 pounds DME, 1 pound, or just say the heck with the DME and stick with what I had planned?

Why not just add some more 2-row? My recipe above has 12.7 pounds of grain, mostly malt. I'm getting about 6.7% ABV (this from memory, but it's close).

You've got 10 pounds right now, just a couple more pounds of 2-row puts you in a good place. If you're worried about maltiness, just mash at a bit higher temp, say 154 or so.

Brew it, see what you've got.

In the immortal words of Mongoose33, "Less talking, more brewing!"

 

[Oldskewl]

I have not brewed with rye yet, but had my first taste of Bear Republic Hop Rod Rye last week. I love it and am considering doing a clone of it over the winter months. Here is the recipe I found from BYO. I thought it may offer some direction on the topic. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Hop Rod Rye clone
(Bear Republic Brewing Co.)
(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.072 FG = 1.017
IBU = 84 SRM = 17 ABV = 7.2%

Ingredients
8.75 lbs. (4.0 kg) 2-row pale malt
2.5 lbs. (1.1 kg) rye malt
1.25 lbs. (0.57 kg) flaked rye
1.15 lbs. (0.52 kg) Munich malt
0.625 lbs. (0.28 kg) wheat malt
0.625 lbs. (0.28 kg) CaraPils malt
1.75 oz. (49 g) black malt
10.4 AAU Tomahawk hops (60 mins)
(0.74 oz./21 g of 14% alpha acids)
4.73 AAU Centennial hops (30 mins)
(0.43 oz./12 g of 11% alpha acids)
24.3 AAU Tomahawk hops (0 mins)
(1.7 oz./49 g of 14% alpha acids)
0.75 oz. (21 g) Amarillo hops (dry hop)
1.0 oz. (28 g) Centennial hops
(dry hop)
1 tsp Irish moss (15 mins)
Wyeast 1272 (American Ale II) or White Labs WLP051
(California V) yeast
0.75 cups corn sugar
(for priming)

Step by Step
Mash in at 145 °F (63 °C) then ramp temperature to 152 °F (67 °C) for conversion. Mash out to 170 °F (77 °C). Boil for 90 minutes, adding hops at the times indicated in the ingredient list. Whirlpool the wort and let it sit for 15 minutes prior to cooling. Ferment at 68 °F (20 °C).

 

[chickypad]

So I've been considering adding 2 lbs of Extra Light DME to this. My thought is that the additional gravity points will help counter the IBUS that'll come from all of the late hop additions, particularly the hopstand, as well as help the Rye stand out against the hops.

I don't think making this a bigger beer is going to make the rye stand out more (unless you're doing it by upping the rye of course). I'd say it comes down to whether you want an IPA or a pale ale. I've had success with both using rye + lots of big American hops. I do agree with specharka that you might want to watch the bitterness, rye seems to make the beer taste dryer than you would otherwise expect for a given OG/FG which I think can accentuate the bitterness. IME though the bitterness from big hop stands is not very pronounced, or at least always seems less than the calculators say it should be. I think your plan of a small FWH then all hopstand/dry hop sounds like a good one. I'd certainly drink it!

 

[mongoose33]

This just occurred to me. If you can find it in the area, get some Arc Welder from Metropolitan Brewing.

http://metrobrewing.com/arc-welder/

I had one of those this summer up in Door County, and it is fairly close to the Rye beer I brew. At some point I may try to clone it, but given that my own Funky Rye (above) is pretty close, I may do something else.

It's a pretty good representation of what the base malts will taste like and the hops don't overwhelm it.

If we had it locally there'd be no contest--it's what I'd order.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

This just occurred to me. If you can find it in the area, get some Arc Welder from Metropolitan Brewing.

http://metrobrewing.com/arc-welder/

I had one of those this summer up in Door County, and it is fairly close to the Rye beer I brew. At some point I may try to clone it, but given that my own Funky Rye (above) is pretty close, I may do something else.

It's a pretty good representation of what the base malts will taste like and the hops don't overwhelm it.

If we had it locally there'd be no contest--it's what I'd order.

We can't get it in Michigan, but I go to Chicago every few months for work, so I'll be on the look out. Thanks!

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

Thanks for all the feedback. I've updated the recipe. I'll post pictures and "findings." Cheers!