High Gravity Question: Starter Size

[Iowa Brewer]

Hi all,

Next Saturday I'm brewing a Stone Sublimely Self-Righteous clone (estimated OG 1.084) with Imperial Yeast's "Ale House" (A01), created on Dec. 17, 2019. Haven't used starters with Imperial in the past, but considering it's over 4 months old--the age Imperial says you should start using starters--I'm going to do one on my stir plate.

My question is, should I create a full 2 Liter starter, since this is a high-gravity project? Considering the pack started at 200Billion cells, will it blow a hole through my ceiling if I do?

Thanks for any and all advice

 

[TennBrewer]

No problem as far as I can see. 4 month old liquid yeast is a little too old for my comfort but there should be about 33% viability. You didn't mention the batch size so I assume 5 gallons. A 2 liter starter (on a stir plate) should yield about 350 billion cells and you need at least 290 billion. Making a little more wouldn't hurt, either. A friend of mine who owns a brewery here said it is difficult for a home brewer to over-pitch yeast as many times it is often under-pitched.

 

[isomerization]

No problem as far as I can see. 4 month old liquid yeast is a little too old for my comfort but there should be about 33% viability. You didn't mention the batch size so I assume 5 gallons. A 2 liter starter (on a stir plate) should yield about 350 billion cells and you need at least 290 billion. Making a little more wouldn't hurt, either. A friend of mine who owns a brewery here said it is difficult for a home brewer to over-pitch yeast as many times it is often under-pitched.

Viability is strain dependent (at fridge temps), so almost impossible to say what you have in the pouch.

I’d concur on making a 2L starter.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

Hey, thanks TennBrewer! That's really good to know about relative safety regarding over-pitching at the homebrew level.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

Viability is strain dependent (at fridge temps), so almost impossible to say what you have in the pouch.

I’d concur on making a 2L starter.

Good point, isomerization, and thanks!

 

[CodeSection]

@Iowa Brewer, my recommendation would be when you make your 2L starter, consider pitching at 1.25 the normal DME amount since you are dealing with a high gravity brew. Brewer's Friend has a good calculator.....

 

[TheMadKing]

Hi all,

Next Saturday I'm brewing a Stone Sublimely Self-Righteous clone (estimated OG 1.084) with Imperial Yeast's "Ale House" (A01), created on Dec. 17, 2019. Haven't used starters with Imperial in the past, but considering it's over 4 months old--the age Imperial says you should start using starters--I'm going to do one on my stir plate.

My question is, should I create a full 2 Liter starter, since this is a high-gravity project? Considering the pack started at 200Billion cells, will it blow a hole through my ceiling if I do?

Thanks for any and all advice

I would make a 2 step starter myself - a smaller one (0.5 - 1L) to get your cell count back up, and a bigger one to reach a big pitch rate for that beer -

If it were me, on my system, I would probably do a 3-4L starter a week in advance, cold crash, and pitch the slurry with a beer that big. It's hard to overpitch and easy to underpitch. Oxygen is also your friend at pitch time.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

Thanks, Code Section. I'll give that a go!

 

[Iowa Brewer]

I would make a 2 step starter myself - a smaller one (0.5 - 1L) to get your cell count back up, and a bigger one to reach a big pitch rate for that beer -

If it were me, on my system, I would probably do a 3-4L starter a week in advance, cold crash, and pitch the slurry with a beer that big. It's hard to overpitch and easy to underpitch. Oxygen is also your friend at pitch time.

Thanks, TheMadKing! I'm afraid my flask only does 2L, but maybe I should look at upping my game with a larger erlenmeyer.

Do you think it would be worth doing the 1.25% DME, as Code Section suggests, and let it sit on the plate for longer? Maybe make it tonight and let it spin until Thursday to crash it for Saturday's brew day?

 

[TheMadKing]

Thanks, TheMadKing! I'm afraid my flask only does 2L, but maybe I should look at upping my game with a larger erlenmeyer.

Do you think it would be worth doing the 1.25% DME, as Code Section suggests, and let it sit on the plate for longer? Maybe make it tonight and let it spin until Thursday to crash it for Saturday's brew day?

Personally no, but that's not to say it's wrong.

the goal of your starter is to grow yeast and that's best accomplished by providing them only enough nutrients to grow, but not so much that they make a bunch of alcohol. Yeast growth is best accomplished in low gravity wort, 1.038 is typically cited. Increasing the gravity may result in more overall cells, but decreased overall health.

 

[pdxal]

Agree with 1.030-1.040 starters to grow the largest amount of healthy yeast. In the actual brew they will accommodate to the higher gravity just fine.

 

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

One other piece of advice for higher gravity brews: oxygenate at least once during fermentation. Yeast need oxygen to grow, and they'll only grow to so many generations without oxygen. Stirring once or twice during fermentation to introduce oxygen will help you achieve your terminal gravity without any side effects, as the yeast absorb oxygen very quickly. Jamil said on the Brew Strong podcast that larger craft breweries such as Dogfish Head will aerate daily to ferment high gravity brews in under a week.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

One other piece of advice for higher gravity brews: oxygenate at least once during fermentation. Yeast need oxygen to grow, and they'll only grow to so many generations without oxygen. Stirring once or twice during fermentation to introduce oxygen will help you achieve your terminal gravity without any side effects, as the yeast absorb oxygen very quickly. Jamil said on the Brew Strong podcast that larger craft breweries such as Dogfish Head will aerate daily to ferment high gravity brews in under a week.

Cool idea, NewFranconiaBrewing!
How do you recommend doing that in a glass carboy? Would an aquarium aerator be okay, or swirl it with lid off?

 

[CodeSection]

@Iowa Brewer, you might find these links useful...

https://byo.com/article/fermenting-high-gravity-beers-techniques/
https://byo.com/resource/pitching/
https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

 

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

Cool idea, NewFranconiaBrewing!
How do you recommend doing that in a glass carboy? Would an aquarium aerator be okay, or swirl it with lid off?

Either approach works. You'll probably be able to get more oxygen in there with the aquarium aerator.

 

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

Either approach works. You'll probably be able to get more oxygen in there with the aquarium aerator.

Just double checked in How to Brew.

Recommended to aerate a second time 8-12 hours post pitch.
Recommended to use air pump over the spoon & stir method. Consider using a foam reducing agent to avoid making a mess.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

@Iowa Brewer, you might find these links useful...

https://byo.com/article/fermenting-high-gravity-beers-techniques/
https://byo.com/resource/pitching/
https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

Thanks, CodeSection!