I have a dark sour (1072 OG) I brewed that is a few weeks away from it's first birthday. It sat in a single glass carboy the entire time with T-58, Roeselare, Cantillon, Crooked Stave, and the Bruery dregs. The first gravity reading I took was at 11mo coming in at 1013. The acidity is right where I want it, but I'm not sure if 1013 is too high. Mashed at 158F. Give it another month and check the gravity again? Is 1013 high for a dark sour?
High FG Dark Sour Advice
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inflictor-of-grimness
Well-Known Member
Seems kind of high. How did it taste? I certainly wouldn't bottle at that gravity without making sure the gravity is stable. Give it a couple months and check again.
The acidity was at a nice and firm level. I wonder if it would make sense to pitch ECY Brux I have saved or wait it out. I wasn't sure if the acidity will continue to increase as I wait another few months.
Taste wise it reminds me of Nightmare on Brett without the barrel treatment.
Taste wise it reminds me of Nightmare on Brett without the barrel treatment.
A "pure" single stain of anything ECY wont do anything. You already have a fairly dynamic culture there. I would say combined with the mash temp, and possibly a bunch of caramelized/carbonized sugar you should be safe.
Out of curiosity, what was the grist? I have a sour black beer that was basically a RIS grist and its been chilling at 1.030 for six months. I only pitched ECY02 though, and the beer seems to be a bit overly viscous. So I still need that to clean up some.
Out of curiosity, what was the grist? I have a sour black beer that was basically a RIS grist and its been chilling at 1.030 for six months. I only pitched ECY02 though, and the beer seems to be a bit overly viscous. So I still need that to clean up some.
MileHighBrewer
Well-Known Member
The brett might still be going but, bugs are probably stalled. Remember they can be alcohol sensitive. T58 usually craps out around 10-12 anyways so that's not far off. Some brett strains can go up above the 10% range if handled properly. Basically if it's stable for 2 months that might be it. Chad does some higher abv sours, but they still have some malty character, probably from stalling due to high alcohol and low ph.
Ps I am writing this at the crooked stave tasting room
just felt like saying that
Ps I am writing this at the crooked stave tasting room
just felt like saying thatSomehow when I brewed this I thought it would be a good idea to include 16% crystal malts and 7% chocolate malt. I'm sure that combined with the 158F mash rest are the reason I'm at 1013 after almost a year. I'll check the gravity next month to see if it's moved.
9% C-60
7% carapils
9% C-60
7% carapils
MileHighBrewer
Well-Known Member
What temp are you sitting at?
My beer was a high % of Cara130 I think and some black malt. It was an amped version of the recipe for Tart of Darkness from MoreBeer, I made it blacker, and more stout like. I felt like ToD only tasted like a flanders red/brown if you had your eyes closed and was black just like most black IPAs are black for the sake of being black. So I decided to showcase some stout qualities like JPs Madura Obscurada actually displays.
Mine is sitting at 70s and I think my issue is just a brett thing. I cant tell if my 1.030 is just residual extract or if its rope/viscosity from the pedio. If it's just residual extract my beer is only at about 7-8%abv and the brett should be FINE. If it's viscosity then I would guess my gravity closer to 1.01x making the beer nearer to 10% and could possibly be posing an issue for the ECY brett. I know in "nature" brett has been found in wines nearing 18%abv so brett can be adaptable to higher abv but this specific strain may be weak. Only one way to tell though. I'll add a more aggressive culture or possibly find some wine with living brett and see if I can get the lab at work to sterile filter it for me.
Mine is sitting at 70s and I think my issue is just a brett thing. I cant tell if my 1.030 is just residual extract or if its rope/viscosity from the pedio. If it's just residual extract my beer is only at about 7-8%abv and the brett should be FINE. If it's viscosity then I would guess my gravity closer to 1.01x making the beer nearer to 10% and could possibly be posing an issue for the ECY brett. I know in "nature" brett has been found in wines nearing 18%abv so brett can be adaptable to higher abv but this specific strain may be weak. Only one way to tell though. I'll add a more aggressive culture or possibly find some wine with living brett and see if I can get the lab at work to sterile filter it for me.
I did a Madrugada Obscura clone from the Can You Brew It recipe and it finished at around 1.016. It's been bottled for 7 months and I haven't had any over carbonation problems. It had stalled for a long time at 1.020, but I shifted into different temperature areas and it dropped 4 points.
It's a rule of thumb to not bottle any sours that are above 1.010, but exceptions do happen.
It's a rule of thumb to not bottle any sours that are above 1.010, but exceptions do happen.
I hate blind rules. A high fg with a souring culture doesn't scare me one bit.
I did 4.7 oz of table sugar for 5 gallons.
@smokinghold - It should scare you. It's not a blind rule and you could easily end up with bottle bombs if you're negligent.
Thanks for the warning. I have it under control. I've been bottling and using residual extract with brett to carb beers for three years now. Having a high terminal gravity doesn't mean a bottle bomb. Like so many things in brewing and homebrewing there are old held beliefs that are perpetuated blindly. As long as you know what you're dealing with high terminal gravity is not a problem. The less diverse the culture you pitch the higher the final gravity (and the slower you will get there) will tend to finish compared to mixed cultures. Every strain does not produce the same enzymes necessary to break the various types of sugar bonds. So one organism in the mix might be only able to ferment alpha 4-6 bonds while another can hydrolyze beta 1-4 bonds. So when you look at a wort you prepared in a percentage of the types of sugar and you only have organisms that can say ferment 60% (real extract) of all the wort then when they're done they're done. Sure it can take a while because of the speed at which the sugar hydrolyzing takes place, but once it runs its course those organisms can go no further. It's a complicated subject but, no bottling a high FG isn't dangerous as long as you understand what's happening. If you're ignorant to how a complex fermentation like this proceeds then one should follow blind rules.
Thanks_Yeasties
Well-Known Member
Ps I am writing this at the crooked stave tasting room
Whales blood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Alright, just had to get that out, back to the discussion at hand!
Sorry that you took personal offense. I am using ignorant in the proper meaning of "does not understand or lacking knowledge". There is plenty I am ignorant about and one thing is how I was pompous. I guess not taking the weak path and end my posts with "according to" or "I think/heard" while addressing your post makes me pompous then so be it. There is much less mystique to this than most realize.
Don't forget sarcastic also.
kcmobrewer
Well-Known Member
I think the general rule of thumb is not to bottle over 1.008. To avoid bombs.
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Ps I am writing this at the crooked stave tasting room
Need to remind myself to post a pic of the beach with beer in hand in January while you're up to your eyeballs in the cold stuff... When I go to order a beer at local restaurants and ask, "What craft beers do you have?" I usually get a dumbfounded look, followed by, "We have bud light, miller lite, coors lite, corona, corona lite, umm, and the regular non-lite versions." At which point I order a Manhattan.
Sorry, just felt like saying that!
TD
All I'm trying to get across is that a beer will not ferment forever. So if you have 1.020 for six months of gravity gravity checks you will more than likely have 1.020 a year from then, and after two and so forth. You do need a hydrometer with better resolution than the $10 jobs most homebrew stores sell to make since judgement calls. I don't play by the rule of thumb I play by the rule of gravity and available extract to produce additional carbonation.
All I'm trying to get across is that a beer will not ferment forever. So if you have 1.020 for six months of gravity gravity checks you will more than likely have 1.020 a year from then, and after two and so forth. You do need a hydrometer with better resolution than the $10 jobs most homebrew stores sell to make since judgement calls. I don't play by the rule of thumb I play by the rule of gravity and available extract to produce additional carbonation.
MileHighBrewer
Well-Known Member
In January I might wearing jeans and a tshirt lol I'll let you in on a secret....it's really not like South Park here, we don't rock parkas year round
In January I might wearing jeans and a tshirt lol I'll let you in on a secret....it's really not like South Park here, we don't rock parkas year round
Crap! Some cities have all the perks I guess.
TD
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