Herms with Extra Keggle and Rectangle MT

[theck]

I acquired 2 keggles a bit ago and have been using one to boil in... love it. The 2nd has been just sitting there begging to be used. I was looking at some Herms setups just for fun and noticed that some people use a cooler for the mash tun. I currently have a Igloo 52 quart as my mash tun and getting decent results from it batch sparging. Would be be any more beneficial to me to create a herms from the extra keggle to the MT? Would I get better results such as clarity, maintaining temps and efficiency? Some setups look very complicated but some super simple... me I'd just be trying to recirculate similar to:

Would I need a SS wort chiller and a pump? Would it be bad to use copper? 1/2 or 3/8? I've been looking to upgrade my 3/8 IC to 1/2 x50' this season anyhow if it would work for chilling and for a herms then it would be more justified

 

[rxpx40]

Subscribing. You bring some good questions. I too have a second keggle that I've cut open to make into an MLT. With insulation, I hope it will maintain temperature for the 1 hour soak, but if it doesn't, I will have to add an electric heating element, since I would like to make it bottom-draining. I will sit back and watch the replies!

 

[theck]

Subscribing. You bring some good questions. I too have a second keggle that I've cut open to make into an MLT. With insulation, I hope it will maintain temperature for the 1 hour soak, but if it doesn't, I will have to add an electric heating element, since I would like to make it bottom-draining. I will sit back and watch the replies!

I've thought about a keggle tun as well but my cooler does pretty well and don't want to spend the extra cash for a thermometer, false bottom and pickup for a tun that might or might not be much better. I thought about selling it but doubt I'd get much so it sits waiting to be used ha...

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[theck]

Ah going to try and make one up this spring... Any advise?

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[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

The two main reasons I went to HERMS was for even, steady temps and to clear the sweet wort. If you continue to batch sparge you will get the temp benefits, but not the clarity. I'm sure you can fly sparge with cube coolers, but you may have to do some mods depending on how you lauter.

 

[theck]

Did it help increase your efficiency? Do you think it was worth the extra effort and cost?

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[EmDubeu]

I run a keggle HLT with 50' stainless steel HERMS coil. I mash in a keggle. I temperature control my HLT with a johnson A419 temperature controller. I recirculate my wort from the mash tun through the HLT with a chugger pump. I have thermometers at the MT output and HLT output to see the temperature going into the HLT and going out of the HLT. The system works well. I can maintain my temperatures the whole mash. My efficiencies are good. In fact, my last 10 gallon batch, Scotch Ale, mashed for 30 minutes. I was able to pull 73% efficiency. My recipe called for 72% so I was happy.

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

Did it help increase your efficiency? Do you think it was worth the extra effort and cost?

I get much better efficiency than when I batch sparged (~80% now), but I was more concerned about temp control and consistency. There isn't that much more effort in brewing, but of course the build was a lot of work which I liked for the most part and learned a great deal. As for cost it was worth it to me, YMMV.

There are a lot of great builds here for HERMS, eHERMS, and RIMS. If you haven't already, look at those and see what features you find are important to you. Recirculating systems don't have to be that complicated or expensive, it's all about what you want to get out of it. I tend to prefer three vessel systems, but there are some great two vessel herm systems on here too. Nothing wrong with using a wort chiller as a HEX, or you could mount a coil in your HTL it's up to you. I think the only requirement is a pump.

 

[MaxOut]

I run a keggle HLT with 50' stainless steel HERMS coil. I mash in a keggle. I temperature control my HLT with a johnson A419 temperature controller. I recirculate my wort from the mash tun through the HLT with a chugger pump. I have thermometers at the MT output and HLT output to see the temperature going into the HLT and going out of the HLT. The system works well. I can maintain my temperatures the whole mash. My efficiencies are good. In fact, my last 10 gallon batch, Scotch Ale, mashed for 30 minutes. I was able to pull 73% efficiency. My recipe called for 72% so I was happy.

My process is very similar to yours when using keggles alone the only difference is I recirculate the heated water in the HLT from bottom outlet to top whirlpool inlet at the same time with another Chugger. Eventually I made stir motor to use instead of the pump in the HLT and it is way more efficient when ramping temps and using the HERMS for cooling. I initially added the stir motor to free up the pump when I moved to a larger system and wish I would have done it from the beginning.

 

[theck]

I run a keggle HLT with 50' stainless steel HERMS coil. I mash in a keggle. I temperature control my HLT with a johnson A419 temperature controller. I recirculate my wort from the mash tun through the HLT with a chugger pump. I have thermometers at the MT output and HLT output to see the temperature going into the HLT and going out of the HLT. The system works well. I can maintain my temperatures the whole mash. My efficiencies are good. In fact, my last 10 gallon batch, Scotch Ale, mashed for 30 minutes. I was able to pull 73% efficiency. My recipe called for 72% so I was happy.

That's pretty sweet... I might just go ahead and get a new IE, maybe SS, and give it a try. I wouldn't mind getting a pump anyhow since it's sometimes hard to get the gravity working well out of my diptube. Does anyone run a screen, on this setup? That's what I have now in my tun and would like to keep it. Thanks guys.

 

[EmDubeu]

That's pretty sweet... I might just go ahead and get a new IE, maybe SS, and give it a try. I wouldn't mind getting a pump anyhow since it's sometimes hard to get the gravity working well out of my diptube. Does anyone run a screen, on this setup? That's what I have now in my tun and would like to keep it. Thanks guys.

I have a false bottom on my mash tun. Very little, if any, grain pass through it. If there is any, it just pushes through the valves, through the coil and back into the mash tun. Here's a look inside...

 

[EmDubeu]

I call the black lock-line in my mash tun a mash wang...

 

[theck]

I plan on using a cooler tun with a bazooka screen, you know if that would work well or would it cause issues vs. using a false bottom on a round cooler or keggle tun?

 

[EmDubeu]

I plan on using a cooler tun with a bazooka screen, you know if that would work well or would it cause issues vs. using a false bottom on a round cooler or keggle tun?

I don't personally have any experience using a cooler as a MT, but there are thousands of people who have. It's typical for them to also use a bazooka screen, or even a false bottom, to keep the grain where it's supposed to be. This setup will work with a HERMS, however if you are looking to maintain mash temperature then your cooler will do an excellent job by itself (no herms).

Cheers!

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

You probably won't see much increase in efficiency with a bazooka screen, a false bottom or manifold would be a better way to go. Coolers hold temps well but the mash can form hot and cold spots. Not saying you have to have HERMS to make good beer, but it has it's benefits.

 

[kluge9]

There's been plenty if talk about the inefficiencies of a bazooka screen when not batch sparging. If the wort is only being drawn out from a certain spot (and not the whole width of the tun like a FB) it causes central channeling and poor efficiency. This is not a big deal when batch sparging because you're doing a full drain and then adding sparge water, however, during fly sparging and recirc, you'll see the difference


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[theck]

Got ya, maybe I'll stick to batch sparging for now with the bazooka, my efficiency is 70ish so it's not that bad and I get good beers. I read about the channeling and a reason I drain very painfully slow. I just wondering if I could get better results in quality and efficiency for little money, sounds like I'd have to invest in some other stuff as well. Maybe I'll build up to it at some point. Thanks guys!