HERMS system question???

[Julian537]

I have a 3 vessel HERMS system. My HLT is a 15 gallon keg with a 50' stainless coil in it and the MASH TUN is a 15 gallon keg w/ a SS false bottom. I am running two pumps. My question or issue is with the MASH Tun. I find that my grain in the mash tun gets sucked to the bottom of my false bottom and gets compacted, during re-circulation of the wort. I have a valve on the output side of the pump, before it goes through the coil in the HLT and back into the mash tun. I shut this valve before I start recirculating. It usually gets plugged with grain from the mash tun in the beginning. I open it slowly to get the grain and wort to pass. When I recirculate, it is a slow trickle back into the mash tun, through a floating sparge ball. The wort clears up after running for a few minutes.

I thought I would see an increase in efficiency with a HERMS, but I am still only around 70%

What can I do or should I do to keep the grain from getting compacted in the mash tun?
Is this compaction causing my efficiency issues?

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Julian537]

I have the MKII pumps that are 5 gallon per minute. not sure if that makes much of a difference.

 

[day_trippr]

Plugging up the valve on the output side of a pump suggests there's a lot of grain getting past your false bottom (and I wonder if the pump is plugged, too). When you say recirculation "is a slow trickle", is that because of your pump valve setting, or because the mash is stuck?

Cheers!

 

[Julian537]

it is due to the pump valve setting. How fast should I recirculate?
The mash is not stuck. I do find that the mash gets compacted against the false bottom. I use 1.25 qts per lb of grain plus 1 gallon for the mash tun dead space, below the false bottom.

 

[day_trippr]

I run my recirculation between 2 and 3 gallons per minute on average, with the rate determined by the sight gauge on my hlt: I raise the rate until the gauge goes just below the top of the mash, then tweak the rate to keep it right there...

Cheers!

 

[Julian537]

I run my recirculation between 2 and 3 gallons per minute on average, with the rate determined by the sight gauge on my hlt: I raise the rate until the gauge goes just below the top of the mash, then tweak the rate to keep it right there...

Cheers!

Does your grain compact against the false bottom?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I really depends on the grain, especially flaked grains and your crush, try to crush big and use rice hulls, if not you'll need to to go less than half on your ball valve and stir a few times, by stirring I mean do the shovel stir bottom to top

 

[day_trippr]

Does your grain compact against the false bottom?

Of course grain compaction against the FB is usually the limiting factor wrt flow rate, and certainly in my case given the ~8 gpm my March 815pl's can pull. I just go by the sight gauge and it makes the whole recirculation thing a breeze and end up in the 2-3 gpm range. If I were to ignore what the gauge tells me (did that the very first brew on my latest rig) and run the recirculation pump too hard it can indeed stick the mash something fierce and it's time to pull out the long spoon to dig things free. That's a lesson I haven't forgotten...

Cheers!

 

[volsherdeers]

Unless your get a stuck mash, run your pump wide open, which I do during the entire mash phase. If you want to slow down the flow, then run the pump wide open till the liquid clears. If it doesn't completely clear up then you might have grain slipping past your false bottom. The weight of the grain will naturally compress the grain bed but shouldn't be an issue unless the grains or adjuncts are too fine(< .040"-.045"). I find if I don't recirculate for a few minutes before connecting my recirculation manifold that it tends to clog up! What pump are you using? If its rated very high it could be sucking/pulling the grain down against the false bottom.

I have a 3 vessel HERMS system. My HLT is a 15 gallon keg with a 50' stainless coil in it and the MASH TUN is a 15 gallon keg w/ a SS false bottom. I am running two pumps. My question or issue is with the MASH Tun. I find that my grain in the mash tun gets sucked to the bottom of my false bottom and gets compacted, during re-circulation of the wort. I have a valve on the output side of the pump, before it goes through the coil in the HLT and back into the mash tun. I shut this valve before I start recirculating. It usually gets plugged with grain from the mash tun in the beginning. I open it slowly to get the grain and wort to pass. When I recirculate, it is a slow trickle back into the mash tun, through a floating sparge ball. The wort clears up after running for a few minutes.

I thought I would see an increase in efficiency with a HERMS, but I am still only around 70%

What can I do or should I do to keep the grain from getting compacted in the mash tun?
Is this compaction causing my efficiency issues?

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Julian537]

Thank you for all the replies. I have a two roller mill (Barley crusher), what should the spacing be between the rollers?

 

[volsherdeers]

Thank you for all the replies. I have a two roller mill (Barley crusher), what should the spacing be between the rollers?

.040"-.045" if you what to play it safe and not have to worry about a stuck sparge.

 

[day_trippr]

Chicken!
I run my roller mill with a .035" gap for barley and .030" for wheat...

Cheers!

 

[HarkinBanks]

I have a 3 vessel HERMS system. My HLT is a 15 gallon keg with a 50' stainless coil in it and the MASH TUN is a 15 gallon keg w/ a SS false bottom. I am running two pumps. My question or issue is with the MASH Tun. I find that my grain in the mash tun gets sucked to the bottom of my false bottom and gets compacted, during re-circulation of the wort. I have a valve on the output side of the pump, before it goes through the coil in the HLT and back into the mash tun. I shut this valve before I start recirculating. It usually gets plugged with grain from the mash tun in the beginning. I open it slowly to get the grain and wort to pass. When I recirculate, it is a slow trickle back into the mash tun, through a floating sparge ball. The wort clears up after running for a few minutes.

I thought I would see an increase in efficiency with a HERMS, but I am still only around 70%

What can I do or should I do to keep the grain from getting compacted in the mash tun?
Is this compaction causing my efficiency issues?

Thanks in advance for the help.

If you have a gallon below your false bottom, you may want to try a different style false bottom. I would want more of that mash volume in contact with my grains. I would also try a thinner mash next time [edit: I just saw you calc 1.25 but then add a gallon for below the FB? so what is your true ratio?]. That will likely help with your recirc and efficiency.

 

[Julian537]

Harkin,

would you suggest 1.5 qts per pound for the ratio? For instance, If I am mashing 10lbs of grain, I would use 19 quarts of water. This is 4 quarts for the dead space and 15 quarts for the rest of the mash ton.

If you have a gallon below your false bottom, you may want to try a different style false bottom. I would want more of that mash volume in contact with my grains. I would also try a thinner mash next time [edit: I just saw you calc 1.25 but then add a gallon for below the FB? so what is your true ratio?]. That will likely help with your recirc and efficiency.

 

[HarkinBanks]

Harkin,

would you suggest 1.5 qts per pound for the ratio? For instance, If I am mashing 10lbs of grain, I would use 19 quarts of water. This is 4 quarts for the dead space and 15 quarts for the rest of the mash ton.

1.5 is certainly acceptable but I keep thinking your false bottom is too high. I tested all sorts of false bottoms from braids to flat to domed. In my experience the domed one gave me the best results from an operational and an efficiency standpoint. Grains should not really be making it past your false bottom. Take a look at this:

https://www.northernbrewer.com/prod...MIkdiH3Nzf3gIVEFmGCh0mFQRoEAQYASABEgKrp_D_BwE

 

[volsherdeers]

1.5 is certainly acceptable but I keep thinking your false bottom is too high. I tested all sorts of false bottoms from braids to flat to domed. In my experience the domed one gave me the best results from an operational and an efficiency standpoint. Grains should not really be making it past your false bottom. Take a look at this:

https://www.northernbrewer.com/prod...MIkdiH3Nzf3gIVEFmGCh0mFQRoEAQYASABEgKrp_D_BwE

Depends on the style your brewing. 1.5-2 qts per lb= thinner/dryer, 1.25qts per lb =sweeter.