herms newb

[bovine_OB]

Hi,
Not sure on which forum to post this in, but here we are. I currently brew 5+/- gal batches using a 16 gallon bayou classic on an avantco 3500. The system started as biab, then moved on to a rectangular cooler mash tun, then back to biab because the cooler was terrible at maintaining mash temp.

I have long considered developing some sort of herms system - based loosely on using the avantco induction cooktop, but have also considered building a kettle with dedicated element as well. With all this being said, I have a 3/8" diameter 25' copper coil currently used as an IC. Would I be able to pump wort from the cooler mash tun --> through this coil placed in a 5 gal stock pot filled with water and placed on the induction cooktop --> back into the cooler mash tun - all the while manually adjusting the induction power to adjust the 5 gal of water. I understand the basics of herms - my main question is "Will there be enough volume of HLT water to maintain a constant mash tun temperature?"

 

[Smellyglove]

Yes. But without a PID-controller controlling the temps I'd rather let it be, and insulate your cooler (more). The reason is that you'd have to watch the temps like a hawk, and adjusting all the time, and since there's a delay between what you adjust and what you'll read in the cooler after a while, it sounds to me at least, like a PITA thing to do.

Some bubble plastic, a layer of the thing you sleep on while on camping (dunno the name in english), one more layer of bubbles, and one layer of that sleeping thing to finish it off should give you a negligible drop in temp. Also if you want to up the insulation make a styrofoam cutout which fits inside the cooler, and wrap it in cling-wrap, and press it down just above the mash. Also make some sort of handle to pull ut out. The cling wrap is just to reapply with new one if it gets dirty.

I've done something similar to this and lost almost 0.5C/90 min. If you use several layers, and some duct tape you can make it into a pretty solid form, which you place the cooler in.

 

[bovine_OB]

Would it be more worth while to build a PID controller for the 5 gallon pot with a hex coil, or do I need to obtain a larger HLT vessel? I've really been after a used sanke keg, but they are hard to come by in rural NE.

 

[TexasWine]

Would it be more worth while to build a PID controller for the 5 gallon pot with a hex coil, or do I need to obtain a larger HLT vessel? I've really been after a used sanke keg, but they are hard to come by in rural NE.

If you have no intention of doing step mashes, then you'll be better off figuring out how to insulate, minimize heat loss and hold temp.

And personally, I'd skip the sanke and go with a cheap Bayou Classic or something with a similar aspect ratio.

As far as volumes go, you're going to be more limited by your 25' coil than anything else because your ability to transfer heat will be less when compared to something like a 50' coil. For example, I only use 3 gallons of water in my HLT but have a ton of surface area to exchange the heat applied to those 3 gallons because I circulate through an external heat exchanger as opposed to a submerged coil. I only need enough water to cover my heating element.

Hope this helps!

 

[bovine_OB]

good info, I appreciate it. I actually do intend to try step mashing, which is one of the reasons I was considering herms in the first place - just trying to find the most economical way to do so. My wife has been known to call me a "tight ass" - so just running every possible scenario through my head before making further "investments". Thanks.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

The system started as biab, then moved on to a rectangular cooler mash tun, then back to biab because the cooler was terrible at maintaining mash temp.

good info, I appreciate it. I actually do intend to try step mashing, which is one of the reasons I was considering herms in the first place - just trying to find the most economical way to do so. My wife has been known to call me a "tight ass" - so just running every possible scenario through my head before making further "investments". Thanks.

I would start by trying to figure out why your cooler is losing so much heat. My round 10g loses <1° F per hour at 40° ambient temperature.

Also, after doing small batch stovetop BIAB, I scratched my eHERMS plans and am working on a recirculating eBIAB based around an Auber EZ Boil unit. I just don't see enough benefit from a traditional HERMS setup to justify the additional complexity and expense to me. I wish I could start over and use the money I spent on my 3 vessel setup towards eBIAB, and I think i would be money ahead at this point.

 

[bovine_OB]

I tried the biab thing, and it worked on stove top for 3 gal batches. Then we moved and got 220v access, so I tried to go bigger but stay simple with biab with a bayou 1064 wrapped in reflectix and an avantco 3500. Then I wanted to gain even more control over mash temp and tried the cooler tun. I've wrapped the cooler like a Eskimo in a blizzard and it still drops 10°/hr. Now I'm trying to find a way to recirculate to gain 1) efficiency, 2) mash temp stability, and 3) try my hand at step mashes. I suppose it doesn't really matter whether I stay with biab or the crappy cooler mash tun.

 

[BrianDorry55]

I agree with mirthfuldragon...maybe your cooler was crappy for some reason? My 10 gallon igloo maintains temperature very well.