Help with recipe...maybe a better yeast?

[Takuie]

been brewing this recipe a lot, it has become one of mine(next to my porter) and SWMBO favorites along with many friends that stop by for a beer every now and then. Everyone says its like Blue Moon, only better. Been getting great reviews but a couple of friends were giving me an honest review, they felt something like a filmy after taste in their mouth after drinking it. Never noticed it myself until they said something. I honestly dont know how to describe it other than a slight film inside my mouth after drinking maybe a 1/2 pint or so. Below is the recipe. I'm thinking maybe its the yeast? I've thought about adding some lemon peel to maybe "crisp" it up a little bit???

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 5.70 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 5.20 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 5.00 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage


Amt

Name

Type

#

%/IBU

5 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 40.0 %
4 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 36.0 %
2 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 16.0 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.0 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 4.0 %
1.00 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 16.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 8 -
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 9 -
0.25 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 10 -
1.0 pkg Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) [23.66 ml] Yeast 11 -


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.065 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.018 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.2 %
Bitterness: 16.0 IBUs
Est Color: 6.3 SRM

Measured Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.5 %
Calories: 172.0 kcal/12oz


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE


Total Grain Weight: 12 lbs 8.0 oz

Mash In Add 15.63 qt of water at 168.2 F 156.0 F 45 min
Mash Out Add 6.25 qt of water at 202.4 F 168.0 F 10 min


I ferment this at 63 degrees until FG, then drop down to 60 for around a week-10 days, cold crash 4 days at 36 degrees then keg.

My equipment is clean, no really I mean crazy clean, military clean(you fellow military brats will understand that statement), actually better than that. My dad was a retired Navy Seal, so I know clean. All the cleaners I use other than PBW and starsan are oxyclean free, unscented dishsoap, and all SS equipment gets a pre-rinse in a mild bleach water solution to begin the "cleaning rituals".

Any and all tips, pointers, ridcules, etc are always welcome.

 

[BigRob]

You have a few options:

1) Mash lower, 150 or lower if you ignore option #2
2) Use less crystal malts, 2.5lbs is a LOT for a 5gal batch, especially with wheat and oats.
3) Try using S05 if you really think it's the Nottingham

 

[chickypad]

I was thinking the oats too. I don't use them much but they are used to give a smoothness or slickness to the mouthfeel, due to the increased lipid content as I understand it. If you want something crisp I'd leave them out. I agree that seems like a lot of cara malts at 20% but I guess if you're finishing at 1.010 maybe that's not hurting you.

 

[BigRob]

Seems odd to mash 156 with that much crystal and still net 1.010 FG.

 

[Takuie]

excellent! thanks for the advice. I thought it was a little much but went ahead and tossed it in, relying too much on beersmith than my own gut. I'll try dropping the crystal back a bit.

This whole recipe has always been odd when going by the numbers. When plugging it into beersmith, it just didnt seem right number wise, but oddly enough I hit the numbers perfectly every time. It took me a while to dial it in and am still working on it. Havent even named it yet, I still call it unNamed Wheat.

 

[Takuie]

So maybe drop the oats all together and cut back the crystal to what a pound maybe?

 

[chickypad]

Hit which numbers? The calculated says 1.065 and estimates 1.018 FG, but you actually measured 1.052 and 1.010?

 

[Iseneye]

You've got 24% non-base malt. That's going to add a lot of body and mouth feel.

 

[BigRob]

I'd ditch the carapils right off the bat, there's no need for it when you are using wheat. Cut back your crystal malt to a pound or less, try to keep crystal under 10% of total grain bill. If you desire a crisper finish, mash a little lower (150-152F).

It seems you're trying to make a witbier style beer without the clovey phenolics of a belgian yeast. Typically there's no crystal in this style. Just wheat, pilsner and oats (sometimes), if that is what you're gunning for, that's also something to consider.

 

[Takuie]

Hit which numbers? The calculated says 1.065 and estimates 1.018 FG, but you actually measured 1.052 and 1.010?

those were clipped off of first brew back when I first brewed it. I dont input every brew in beersmith. I just take good notes. looking at brew notes, I was 1.063 and finished at 1.017 on last brew.

Last 2 brews I was right at 1.065 and finished at 1.018 both times. Cant get much better than that.

I dont use beersmith to calculate my efficiency since I find it miles off when comparing to other online calculators.

 

[Takuie]

Thanks @BigRob That sounds pretty good to me. Will try that on next brew (week after next). I brew this one a lot.

 

[chickypad]

Yeah 1.018 I would imagine is pretty full bodied for what you seem to be going for. BigRob looks to have you covered.

 

[Takuie]

so the "filmy" taste is just too much body then?

 

[Takuie]

Thank you all for your input. Made some adjustments on your guys/gals input. Here is what I will brew next time:

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 5.70 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 5.20 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 5.00 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage


5 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 47.6 %
4 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 42.9 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.5 %
1.00 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 17.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 6 -
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 7 -
0.25 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 8 -
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 9 -

Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.7 %
Bitterness: 17.3 IBUs
Est Color: 5.0 SRM

Mash In Add 13.13 qt of water at 163.7 F 150.0 F 60 min

 

[BigRob]

Filmy taste could have been body, or slickness from the oats.

 

[KyleWolf]

It could also be your water. For a crisp taste, add some gypsum. It adds a crisp feel to the beer but will also brings out a little more hop bitterness. I use it in my wits all the time.

 

[Yooper]

so the "filmy" taste is just too much body then?

As mentioned, it's most like the combination of oats (which are 'slick' and 'oily', sometimes noticed as 'creamy) and crystal malt.

It could also be your water. For a crisp taste, add some gypsum. It adds a crisp feel to the beer but will also brings out a little more hop bitterness. I use it in my wits all the time.

It's hard to say, as adding sulfate to a beer with noble hops could come out quite unpleasant. Noble hops and high sulfate do not mix.

But it depends what is already in the water, of course. Just adding it without knowing what is already in the water is like adding salt to a sauce without tasting it. If we don't know what is in the water, or the composition of it, or the mash pH, adding something else is a crapshoot at best.

 

[KyleWolf]

As mentioned, it's most like the combination of oats (which are 'slick' and 'oily', sometimes noticed as 'creamy) and crystal malt.



It's hard to say, as adding sulfate to a beer with noble hops could come out quite unpleasant. Noble hops and high sulfate do not mix.

But it depends what is already in the water, of course. Just adding it without knowing what is already in the water is like adding salt to a sauce without tasting it. If we don't know what is in the water, or the composition of it, or the mash pH, adding something else is a crapshoot at best.

You're right as usual Yooper. I probably should have added in the disclaimer that is depends on there water. Thanks for point that out.

 

[permo]

I add oats to all sorts of pale ale and Belgian beers with no problem. I think the high mash temp with all the crystal malts was your viscosity issue.

5 pounds pale
5 pounds wheat
1/2 pound oats
1/2 pound c10
mash at 152
US05

this will give you a very nice beer..... I would also add that to accent the fruit/spice additions maybe a witbier or Belgian yeast strain..?

 

[Iseneye]

I dont use beersmith to calculate my efficiency since I find it miles off when comparing to other online calculators.

Beersmith calculates efficiencies perfectly if you put in the correct figures. You just need to set it up correctly and it is not intuitive. See http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,8579.0.html

 

[Takuie]

@Yooper, not exactly sure what all is in my water. Could look it up, just too lazy. It seems Memphis has great brewing water, Ghost River is brewed just a few miles from me and they add nothing to the water.

@Iseneye, thanks for the link. I will check it out. Never gave much into the setup of beersmith. Mainly use it for recipe creation and a few other built in toys.