Help with "mouthfeel"

[jldc]

Recently, I've been disappointed in the "mouthfeel" of several of my beers (talking APAs mostly with some IPAs as well). It just seems that commercial beers have a thicker feel in the mouth while mine are somewhat watery. Mine have good aroma, good bitterness and flavor but seem "less substantial."

My FG's tend to be on the low side 1.009-1.011 and I generally shoot for an ABV of around 5-5.5 so I don't get drunk on a pint and a half (I'm pretty much a lightweight in terms of alcohol tolerance). I usually mash low for IPAs and APAs so they'll be dry.

I'm thinking of bumping my mash temps up by 3-4 degrees and adding a little more CaraPils (say 1/2-3/4 lb per 5 gallon batch). Should I drop my strike volume from 1.5 qt/lb? Fermentation temp (I usually ferment low 62-65)? Any other thoughts?

Thanks
L

 

[Monstar]

All of those would work. Flaked wheat could help too, and light crystal.

 

[BigEd]

Please post your recipe(s) and mash schedule for a more definitive answer. Yeast choice would help too.

 

[Yooper]

Well, one way is to increase the maltbill which will increase the ABV but provide a fullness to the beer than can be hard to replicate. I've been trying to make a great session IPA or APA and I just haven't been able to quite nail it yet, although I think I'm getting closer and closer each time!

Adding some Munich malt or Vienna malt to the grainbill will really help! I have a 5.5% APA on tap that really seems "bigger" because of the substitution of Munich malt (2 pounds of the 8 pound grainbill) in it. Sometimes a higher carb level provides a "fullness" to the mouthfeel too, so consider boosting that just a tad (easy if you keg!) to maybe 2.5 volumes if yours is less.

Another thing I've found that helps is yeast. Try using a strain like Wyeast 1450- Denny's favorite which actually provides a very rich mouthfeel without underattenuating, while the hops still shine. I love that strain for everything from oatmeal stouts to IPAs!

Mashing a tad higher will help, but you don't want to have a too-sweet underattenuated APA, so I wouldn't go any higher than 153-154, depending on your system. (I almost always mash my APAs at 153).

 

[jldc]

I can't get BeerSmith 2 to export well so:

2 row - 8 lbs
Munich - 1.5 lbs
Crystal 40 - 12 oz
CaraPils - 4 oz
Mash at 149 x 75min

All cascade:
1 oz FW
1 oz 30 min
0.5 oz 10 min
0.5 oz 0 min
1 oz Dry Hop

WLP 002 - English Ale Yeast
OG 1.047
FG 1.009

I have been happy with Denny's and may try it next time.

L

 

[Yooper]

I can't get BeerSmith 2 to export well so:

2 row - 8 lbs
Munich - 1.5 lbs
Crystal 40 - 12 oz
CaraPils - 4 oz
Mash at 149 x 75min

All cascade:
1 oz FW
1 oz 30 min
0.5 oz 10 min
0.5 oz 0 min
1 oz Dry Hop

WLP 002 - English Ale Yeast
OG 1.047
FG 1.009

I have been happy with Denny's and may try it next time.

L

Oh, I love the recipe! I think there are only a couple of tweaks, then. The first is mash temp, as you already said. I'd mash that at 154, and hopefully it'll finish at 1.012-1.014. That small amount may really make a big difference! I'd also increase the Munich malt, decreasing the two-row if you want to keep it at 1.047, but I might just increase the grainbill with the Munich, and end up with an OG of 1.052 or so. If you don't mind some haze, flaked barley could replace the carapils and give you great head retention and a fuller mouthfeel, although I usually only use it in dark beers where haze isn't a concern.

Increasing your carb level just a tad might give you a fuller mouthfeel as well.

One last thought- I used Simpson's Golden Naked Oats in a few beers, based on something I read on Northern Brewer's site. I loved the result, and will continue using it in APAs on occasion. But I'd try the other things first just to tweak this a bit. It's actually a good recipe!

 

[BigEd]

I can't get BeerSmith 2 to export well so:

2 row - 8 lbs
Munich - 1.5 lbs
Crystal 40 - 12 oz
CaraPils - 4 oz
Mash at 149 x 75min

All cascade:
1 oz FW
1 oz 30 min
0.5 oz 10 min
0.5 oz 0 min
1 oz Dry Hop

WLP 002 - English Ale Yeast
OG 1.047
FG 1.009

I have been happy with Denny's and may try it next time.

L

You could bump up the Carapils quantity to 12-16 oz and increase the mash temp by 3-4F. It's also never a bad idea to double check the accuracy of your thermometer.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Have you calibrated your thermometer? I was using a digital thermometer that was high by 4 or 5 deg for a bit and my beers were finishing a bit dry. I finally calibrated it and adjusted appropriately and got where I wanted to be with mouthfeel and ABV. Just a thought.

TB

 

[jldc]

Have you calibrated your thermometer? I was using a digital thermometer that was high by 4 or 5 deg for a bit and my beers were finishing a bit dry. I finally calibrated it and adjusted appropriately and got where I wanted to be with mouthfeel and ABV. Just a thought.

TB

This is a very good thought. I haven't checked it in a brew or two but it's a thermopen and usually spot on.

I appreciate the nice comments. I don't think I'll add any flaked barley or Golden Naked Oats (which I also like) yet. I think 154 for 60 min (maybe only 45) and bump the Munich and Carapils. I think the hops are good as is. Looking for something on the border between and APA and IPA.

L

 

[rockfish42]

Water chemistry can play a role as well, increasing the amount of chloride tends to give a thicker impression.

 

[eltorrente]

Making sure your thermometer is accurate is number 1. It's such an important factor in all-grain brewing - you really need to know, with confidence, that you are mashing at a given temperature. Duplicating or altering previous brews starts with a calibrated thermometer.

Number 2 is simply increasing your mash temperature. 154 is fine, but hell - just go for 156 to get a bigger differential between your previous lack-of-mouthfeel beer. My opinion is that 152-153 is a great APA mash temp, but you'll learn more by jumping up bigger . You'll get a big jump in mouthfeel going from 149 to 156, and the most important thing is that you'll get a bigger understanding of the importance of temperature. To my palate, I think that 3 degrees is noticeable - others may notice less and others more.

 

[EBloom97]

Maybe I'm just being a snob, but I think 1.047 is a pretty low starting gravity for an IPA. I usually aim for 1.060 or higher. In any case, I feel like the lower your starting gravity is, the less of a need you have to mash low to dry out the final product. I mash my imperial IPA at 149, but that's because it needs drying out. At 1.047 you don't really need to go to great lengths to combat the unfermentables. Just my 2 cents.

 

[jldc]

Maybe I'm just being a snob, but I think 1.047 is a pretty low starting gravity for an IPA. I usually aim for 1.060 or higher. In any case, I feel like the lower your starting gravity is, the less of a need you have to mash low to dry out the final product. I mash my imperial IPA at 149, but that's because it needs drying out. At 1.047 you don't really need to go to great lengths to combat the unfermentables. Just my 2 cents.

1.047 would be low for an IPA but it's fine for an APA. Your comments about mash temp are probably correct.

FWIW my thermometer is accurate to within a degree. The overall chloride concentration (after salts added) was about 60ppm. On the low side of the accepted range but probably ok.

So, for now, I think I'll just bump my mash temps by 4-5 degrees and see what happens. I may not need to go that high, but I want to be able to clearly see a difference and I'm not sure that I have the world's most sensitive palate. I can adjust down if needed. I will look at adding flaked barley or oats, or adjusting the chloride only if I don't get what I'm looking for with the mash temps.

Thanks again for the comments.

L

 

[Elaelap]

I had similar issues, until I started using .5lb of Malto Dextrin in all my batches. You can experiment with different amounts, but .5lbs into the beer will definitly make a difference in the mouthfeel.

 

[1MadScientist]

Have you found your mouth feel yet?

I really like what I'm making these days. I started out by following Lil' Sparky's nut brown recipe to the tee (well sorta, I used golden naked oats instead) ; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f67/nut-brown-ag-30187/

I then carried that 1# of golden naked oats over to my APA 'style'. It has a very nice mouth feel and I got a lot of comments from my club members. It goes like this;
9 # 2-row
8 oz biscuit
8 oz carapils
1 # golden naked oats
3.6 oz FWH of Palisades
154* mash
us-05 yeast
sg 1.056
fg 1.009

Granted it is around the 1.056 or so range but maybe you can scale it down.

I'm interested in a good 1.047 APA beer with mouth feel. Have you got it nailed down yet?

 

[jldc]

I'm interested in a good 1.047 APA beer with mouth feel. Have you got it nailed down yet?

Not yet, but I'm convinced (for now) that higher mash temps and more Carapils will help a lot. Brewed this weekend but it was a bit higher gravity - 1.060.

I'll let you know in a few weeks.

L