Help with Camlock selections

[mbbransc]

I'm trying to figure out the best set of camlocks to setup my brewery and I'm having difficulty understanding a few best-practices issues. I've drawn it out a few times but still have questions/concerns. I figure many here have probably designed a few of these over the years and could probably steer me in the right direction.

I'll be moving from boil kettle -> hop back -> pump -> CFC -> fermentor

I have a 1/2" ball valve on my brew kettle. I'm planning on attaching a Male F to that ball valve. I am currently building a hopback from a kitchen canister (I'll take some advice on which bulkheads to weld in, as well) and will attached a Female Camlock D on the IN side, and attach it directly to the brew kettle Male F out. I'll have a Male A leaving the hopback via the bottom of the canister.

Now we get into hoses... I'm not clear on how the silicon hoses connect to the camlocks. I want all my hoses to have female ends for simplicity and consistency. From Bobby's website, it sounds like he suggests BIG C (5/8" hose barbed female camlocks; assume I'll use a hose clamp to ensure it doesn't slip off). Does that sound right? I don't think I'll have any hard right angles in my setup.

So the hose from the hopback goes to the chugger (are their any real concerns to getting the plastic chugger if I'm installing male camlocks and will rarely remove them?). I think the camlock male A fittings IN & OUT there should be fine. Then another hose with the same configuration as earlier headed to the CFC.

OK, the CFC has a 3/8" copper tube. Everything to this point has been 1/2". Am I going to experience any problems? Seems 3/8" would cool faster than a 1/2". But I'm guessing I need 3/8" compression fittings. I see Bobby has 5/8" compression camlocks on his website. Anything that would work for me? Or do I need a 3/8" compression fitting to a 1/2" NPT and then either an A or F camlock? Least connections the better!!

Thanks for any assistance with this!

 

[PlexVector]

If I understood everything correctly it looks like you pretty much have it figured out.

I don't have any experience with 3/8" copper tubing to 1/2" so I'd be doing armchair quarterbacking on that one.

I do like Bobby's 5/8" (full flow) barbs rather than the traditional camlock barbs. I've actually taken a couple of NPT male thread camlocks and filed off the threads to create my own and is a lot of work if you don't have a good file, but it was quicker than ordering new ones from him.

I have the SS chugger, but people seem to be doing okay with the plastic if your careful.

Edit: If you have a few extra bucks go ahead and get an extra BL kit camlock kit (right angle female QD) for one of your hose ends. I ended up needing one in some cases. For hoses think also about how you're going to do "CIP" and not just the brewing side.

 

[eric19312]

I love the camlocks but am not an expert. But hey its the internet so I will chime in anyway.

I'd suggest putting the hopback between the pump and the CFC. You want as little restriction as possible between the BK and the pump. The wort will be plenty hot when it hits your hopback.

The 90 degree Big L Bobby sells is good for attaching to the kettle. They eliminate the problem of the hose kinking on itself when it gets hot.

 

[PlexVector]

I love the camlocks but am not an expert. But hey its the internet so I will chime in anyway.

I'd suggest putting the hopback between the pump and the CFC. You want as little restriction as possible between the BK and the pump. The wort will be plenty hot when it hits your hopback.

The 90 degree Big L Bobby sells is good for attaching to the kettle. They eliminate the problem of the hose kinking on itself when it gets hot.

Good catch. I missed that.
Answering posts and working is kinda like texting and driving.

 

[mbbransc]

I love the camlocks but am not an expert. But hey its the internet so I will chime in anyway.

I'd suggest putting the hopback between the pump and the CFC. You want as little restriction as possible between the BK and the pump. The wort will be plenty hot when it hits your hopback.

The 90 degree Big L Bobby sells is good for attaching to the kettle. They eliminate the problem of the hose kinking on itself when it gets hot.

I considered that. That setup creates another camlock connection and additional hose. Beyond the management of it, it's an extra $35 (2-right angles and hose). Doesn't seem like much but it's >10% increase. I'm trying to be smart about my purchases (cry once) but still need to keep costs down.

I've seen DIY hopbacks connected directly to BKs online. They may have been gravity systems though.

Thanks for the input!

 

[PlexVector]

I considered that. That setup creates another camlock connection and additional hose. Beyond the management of it, it's an extra $35 (2-right angles and hose). Doesn't seem like much but it's >10% increase. I'm trying to be smart about my purchases (cry once) but still need to keep costs down.

I've seen DIY hopbacks connected directly to BKs online. They may have been gravity systems though.

Thanks for the input!

Depending on how every thing is setup the Hopback would connect directly to the ball valve of your pump_ballValve output.

This is my setup:
BK_ballValve->hose->pumpIn/pumpOut_ballValve->hose->Hopback->hose->plateChiller->TempGauge->hose->fermentor

(the under score means it's a perm attachment)

You could do this:
BK_ballValve->hose->pumpIn/pumpOut_ballValve->Hopback->hose->Chiller->hose->fermentor

This still has the same amount of hoses.

 

[mbbransc]

Hmm, yep. I think that would work. See, it's good to hash these things out!!

Let me ask you since you already have a similar setup... did you notice a huge difference in your hop aroma when you included a hopback? My IPAs are turning out great, but I really want that over-the-top hop aroma punch in the face. That's really what I'm chasing with this project.

thx again

 

[Konadog]

Now we get into hoses... I'm not clear on how the silicon hoses connect to the camlocks. I want all my hoses to have female ends for simplicity and consistency. From Bobby's website, it sounds like he suggests BIG C (5/8" hose barbed female camlocks; assume I'll use a hose clamp to ensure it doesn't slip off). Does that sound right? I don't think I'll have any hard right angles in my setup.

You really won't need the hose clamps. Silicone hose will stay really tight once you get it on. I've never had one pop off yet.

 

[PlexVector]

Hmm, yep. I think that would work. See, it's good to hash these things out!!

Let me ask you since you already have a similar setup... did you notice a huge difference in your hop aroma when you included a hopback? My IPAs are turning out great, but I really want that over-the-top hop aroma punch in the face. That's really what I'm chasing with this project.

thx again

My hopback is the hop rocket, but I got it for filtering (using rice hulls) before the plate chiller. Although I plan to use it as filter/hopback next time I have whole hops maybe and the hops will also act as a filter. So I can't really answer your question.

That said and since you as the OP brought it up:
1. with the hop back you would want to move the wort through it fairly slow to extract as much as possible.
2. The other is to recirculate through the hopback back into the kettle before and during chilling the wort. You can play with recirc flow as well as time and temperature. The higher the temp the more IBUs added and if you cool to below 180 and then start recirc you will get less IBUs and the focus in aroma and taste. You would probably want to recirc with the lid on post boil of course to keep aromas from escaping and recirc slowly with no splashing. I have not done this yet but plan to soon.

 

[PlexVector]

You really won't need the hose clamps. Silicone hose will stay really tight once you get it on. I've never had one pop off yet.

For me hose clamps are cheap insurance for not getting scaled and/or loosing wort.

 

[Konadog]

For me hose clamps are cheap insurance for not getting scaled and/or loosing wort.

I would agree with the normal ones, but the high flow ones are so tight, I had to cut one to get it off. But you are correct, cheap insurance!

 

[mbbransc]

OK, the CFC has a 3/8" copper tube. Everything to this point has been 1/2". Am I going to experience any problems? Seems 3/8" would cool faster than a 1/2". But I'm guessing I need 3/8" compression fittings. I see Bobby has 5/8" compression camlocks on his website. Anything that would work for me? Or do I need a 3/8" compression fitting to a 1/2" NPT and then either an A or F camlock? Least connections the better!!

Thanks for any assistance with this!

Can I get some help with the last part of this? What's the best method for attaching the female camlock to the 3/8" copper protruding from the CFC?

 

[mbbransc]

Depending on how every thing is setup the Hopback would connect directly to the ball valve of your pump_ballValve output.

This is my setup:
BK_ballValve->hose->pumpIn/pumpOut_ballValve->hose->Hopback->hose->plateChiller->TempGauge->hose->fermentor

(the under score means it's a perm attachment)

You could do this:
BK_ballValve->hose->pumpIn/pumpOut_ballValve->Hopback->hose->Chiller->hose->fermentor

This still has the same amount of hoses.

I'm drawing this out and considering the logistics of my brewery. I can have the pump parallel with the BK_BallValve, and HopBack IN connected to the pump_BallValve, with the exit going down, through a hose to the CFC. But the wort leaving the CFC will have to go UP to get into the fermenter. With the pump being in front of the HopBack, I'm concerned I won't have enough pressure to push the wort UP to the fermentor after the CFC. The HopBack has a lid but is not a sealed vessel.

 

[PlexVector]

I'm drawing this out and considering the logistics of my brewery. I can have the pump parallel with the BK_BallValve, and HopBack IN connected to the pump_BallValve, with the exit going down, through a hose to the CFC. But the wort leaving the CFC will have to go UP to get into the fermenter. With the pump being in front of the HopBack, I'm concerned I won't have enough pressure to push the wort UP to the fermentor after the CFC. The HopBack has a lid but is not a sealed vessel.

That means you treat the hopback as a "grant" basically. The easiest is to use gravity from the BK to the Grant/hopback, then the pump is used to move wort from the grant to CFC and you manually control the level of the Grant with the pump ball valve.

More realistically, forget the hopback and do post boil hop additions in the BK and control the post boil BK temp through recirc using the pump and CFC.

 

[mbbransc]

I don't want to recirc. I want to hit the hopback, cool rapidly in a closed system without losing any aromatics to the atmosphere, and then hit the fermentor.

First time I've heard of a 'grant'.

That setup is what I had suggested first but it sounded like the wort flow TO the pump may be too hampered for the pump to work properly (resulting in shortened life, I suppose).

Tricky tricky

 

[PlexVector]

We thought it was a closed system that could be pressurized. My take is the hopback is used by breweries because they need to free up the BK for the next fermentation. Home breweries don't need to do that. You can get more hop goodness with the BK after flame out. You can use the CFC and recirc to cool the wort to different temps to control the hop oil extraction. If we just run through the hopback you are leaving behind hop goodness. Put the lid on the BK and you have your hopback as a stand.

My next brew day I plan to do FWH and postboil only. Postboil I will reduce the BK temp to 180F, add the hops, cover it, and let stand 20 min, and then run through chiller to fermentor. I just use the hop rocket as filter to the plate chiller.

 

[mbbransc]

My next brew day I plan to do FWH and postboil only. Postboil I will reduce the BK temp to 180F, add the hops, cover it, and let stand 20 min, and then run through chiller to fermentor. I just use the hop rocket as filter to the plate chiller.

This is what I do today