Help with Amber that finishes Flat

[JeepDiver]

I've been working on an Amber recipie that I wanted to be somewhat how Flat Tire use to be, but a little more fruity. I'm actually close to what I want, I like the flavor profile, and the bitterness is about right, but all of the taste is up front. The beer just falls flat and leaves nothing on the taste buds, it just goes away.

Any suggestions. I haven't had any other beers just fall flat like this does on the back of the palate.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.20 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.98 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG
Estimated Color: 10.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 21.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.4 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
7 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 75.0 %
8.0 oz Aromatic Malt (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 2 5.0 %
8.0 oz Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.0 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.0 %
8.0 oz Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.0 %
8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 6 5.0 %
0.50 oz Northern Brewer [9.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 17.8 IBUs
0.28 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 8 -
0.50 oz Fuggles [3.60 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 3.2 IBUs
0.25 oz Fuggles [3.60 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 10 0.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [100 Yeast 11 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 31.32 qt of water at 161.3 F 156.0 F 60 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

 

[JeepDiver]

Bump for the night crowd

 

[TarheelBrew13]

I'm assuming you mean that you want it to be like Fat Tire, the beer from New Belgium Brewing Company?

 

[JeepDiver]

I'm assuming you mean that you want it to be like Fat Tire, the beer from New Belgium Brewing Company?

Yeah, guess I Fat fingered that one . Maybe that is the problem, it is Flat Tire at this point and not Fat Tire

 

[chuckstout]

It could be your carbonation volume is a little off

 

[JeepDiver]

It could be your carbonation volume is a little off

Thought about that, so kicked the pressure up on the Keg and still the same thing. Really at a loss on this one. The upfront taste is great, then nothing.

 

[chuckstout]

Same water and/or any water additions,

 

[JeepDiver]

same water as all my other beers, no additions. Water is a little hard here, but haven't had any issues with anything else

 

[bbrim]

I've had high sodium levels leave beers with a flabby flat finish despite great aroma. Otherwise it looks like a good recipe. Maybe you should try another yeast, that one may not showcase the flavors the best, I think White Labs 007 would work well for this beer. Hope you get this one figured out.
Cheers!

 

[TopherM]

Did you happen to measure your mash temp at the end of the mash? Do you have a good mash processs to properly hold the 156F mash temp for an hour, or do you loose some of that temp over the hour?

If you are losing 5+ degrees over the course of your mash, that could lead to some decreased body in the final product, which could be what you are lacking on the back end of the brew.

 

[JeepDiver]

Did you happen to measure your mash temp at the end of the mash? Do you have a good mash processs to properly hold the 156F mash temp for an hour, or do you loose some of that temp over the hour?

If you are losing 5+ degrees over the course of your mash, that could lead to some decreased body in the final product, which could be what you are lacking on the back end of the brew.

Hum, that could be. I usually hit the burner to bump it back up about half way through the mash, after it drops a couple of degrees then it stays to the end. May have let it drop a little too much, but I did hit my expected FG, would think it would have dropped a little lower if it would have been too low.

And I think we do have a fairly high level of sodium in the water here, so may have to check that too.

 

[TopherM]

Maintaining the mash temp for the first 20 minutes or so is really important if you want any kind of consistency.

Bumping the temp back up at the 30 minute mark isn't really doing anything at all, as most of the conversion is already complete at that point.

You need to go up to Goodwill and buy a sleeping bag or thick blanket and wrap your brew kettle real snug for the duration of the mash. The temp is VERY difficult to control just sitting on your burner.

You'll still make beer, but as you are finding out, you can't really expect consistent results without being able to reasonably control your mash temp.

 

[Revvy]

How bout funking it up a bit by using a Belgian Yeast, and a warm ferment?

 

[JeepDiver]

Maintaining the mash temp for the first 20 minutes or so is really important if you want any kind of consistency.

Bumping the temp back up at the 30 minute mark isn't really doing anything at all, as most of the conversion is already complete at that point.

You need to go up to Goodwill and buy a sleeping bag or thick blanket and wrap your brew kettle real snug for the duration of the mash. The temp is VERY difficult to control just sitting on your burner.

You'll still make beer, but as you are finding out, you can't really expect consistent results without being able to reasonably control your mash temp.

Well I get consistant results with my other beers. I BIAB, so I only drop about 2-3 degrees in 30 mins, and that is on a cold day. I do wrap it with a sleeping bag, so it stays steady for about the first 15 mins then starts to drop some.

 

[JeepDiver]

How bout funking it up a bit by using a Belgian Yeast, and a warm ferment?

Actually this recipie might not be half bad with Belgian yeast. But still want to figure this out so I have a nice drinkable amber.

 

[Revvy]

To me Fat Tire actually has a bit of a beliganny "bite" to it. That's what popped into my head when reading your initial post.

I kept thinking about those "Cali-Belgique" Ipas, and thought that a amber with less hop bite might be a good candidate.