Help with 1st time water adjustments

[brewbeerry]

Hi, I used BrauKaiser's tutorial for the at home water test (not as detailed as a Ward's test since I dont have sulfate info, etc) but it gave me a good starting point. My pale beers come out tasting the same, with a harshness. Tomorrow I am planning an Imperial Porter and would like to ask a few questions.

Here is the grain bill:
1 gallon

2.297 lbs 2 row
.4 lbs special B
.153 lbs black patent
.077 lbs chocolate malt 350L


Here is my starting water according to the test and using the Excel sheet:

Low in Ca and Cl, which is supposed to promote roundness, flavor, stability, and hot break/clearing. This next image shows the predicted mash pH and grist information, followed by an image with my proposed water treatment (partially).

I think I should add 1 gram of baking soda to increase mash pH to 5.2, getting bicarbonates up to 189 ppm (in the middle of the 150-250 range for dark beers), then add 2 grams of CaCl to the boil to increase calcium and chloride without dropping the mash pH- so I wont have to use as much baking soda.
If I were to add 2 grams CaCl and 1 gram NaHCO3 to the mash, it would give me an estimated pH of 5.09. Then, if I were to bump the baking soda up to 2 grams, it raises bicarbonates to 269 and mash pH to 5.3.

Does this seem like the right move? Also, am I calculating the % roasted grains right? Im putting the percentage of the grain bill they take up, but on the Excel sheet there is a more confusing formula that calculates what looks to be relative percentage of roasted grains.

I am using water filtered through an on tap Brita filter. I am in Henrico VA and was surprised to see other Richmond water profiles with significantly lower amounts of bicarbonates than what my at home test showed. I guess I am in a different county though. I want to improve my beers and adding CaCl to every beer seems like the right move, then acidulated malt for paler ones and sodium bicarbonate for darker ones to get into the right pH range. Surprisingly, with this same water I got a 1st place medal for a cream ale at the 2013 Dominion Cup and a 3rd place at the Beer Blitz for a wheat wine.

Thanks for any assistance with this! I just started looking into water treatment and am pretty much shooting in the dark.

 

[ajdelange]

Without any bicarbonate I estimate mash pH of 5.53. Bear in mind that all pH estimates are WAGs unless one has detailed data on each malt. Here's what it takes to move the various mash components to pH 5.53

Water: You don't say what the pH is so I assume it's 7 and note that the proton deficit does not much depend on pH. Deficit for your alkalinity to pH 5.53: 5.70 mEq

Calcium and Magnesium: Deficit: -0.65 mEq
Base Malt: I used data from a Pilsner malt I have measured. It has a DI mash pH of 5.62 and buffering (at DI mash pH) if -40.7 mEq/kg-pH. Deficit: 4.13 mEq

Special B: I have no idea what to use here and so grabbed at some of Kai Troester's data for Biscuit which shows a DI mash pH around 5.1 and has buffering of -32.6 assumed to be linear. Deficit -2.66

Chocolate: For the chocolate I used data I measured on a 600L malt which shows DI pH of 4.70 and buffering (at DI pH) of-76.43. Deficit: -2.30

Black Pattent: Again, I took some of Kai's data assuming that the malt has a DI pH of 4.62 and linear buffering of -41.5. Deficit: -4.33

As these all add up to 0 pH 5.53 is the estimated pH. Now if any of the malts you are actually using differ in their properties from what I used (and they doubtless will) the estimated pH will change. The long pole in the tent is the base malt. If it's DI mash pH is as low as 5.5 (unlikely) the mash pH would drop by about 0.08 but if it is as high as 5.8 (much more likely) the mash pH would probably go up by .14 - .16. The Special B is a big question mark for me but even were I to replace it with sauermalz, the most acidic malt I know of, the pH would only go down to 4.99 (without the bicarbonate).

Increasing the calcium to 50 mg/L, especially if you use the chloride, is a good idea but would lower the predicted mash pH to 5.50.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something but it looks to me as if you do not want to use any bicarbonate. It would shift pH up to an estimated 5.68. This is way off from what the spreadsheet you are using suggests. This looks like a rather primitive spreadsheet and the numbers it is giving you don't appear to be trustworthy but then I wouldn't bet the ranch on the numbers I am giving you either.

Were I you I would supplement the calcium with chloride (and sulfate if you like it), skip the bicarbonate and brew. It appears that the water and base malt alkalinities will just balance the acidities of the colored malts but you are always a bit at sea with these dark beers. It is with these beers that a pH meter really becomes a valuable tool.

 

[brewbeerry]

I received my MW102 pH meter about 8 days ago, calibrated it, and have already put it to good use. Thanks for the sound advice, after looking at EZ Water and Bru'n Water spreadsheets, I ditched this 1st spreadsheet I found. I also was able to locate a Glacier RO water machine through their website and purchase RO water at Kroger/Family Dollar for .30 cents a gallon. I also gave up on trying to match water profiles and instead have followed your primer instructions for the past 2 beers I made.

When I dry hopped my Galaxy Pale ale (first one I appled the primer to) I pulled a sample and it was hands down the best beer I have made so far. The pH of the mash at room temp was 5.21, which was .2 lower than what EZ Water had predicted. I did a reading of my 2nd batch sparge and the pH read 5.26, only a slight rise. I also only waited about 55 seconds before draining, usually I wait about 4 mins after adding the sparge water because that was what I first started doing when brewing and have just stuck with it. Im not sure the amount of time the sparge water is in contact with the grain matters, but it could.

I am in the middle of brewing a stout and just took the pH reading of the mash, it came in at 5.34. EZ Water had predicted 5.53, but I figured .2 lower when making my calculations based on what happened with the Galaxy Pale ale- what do you know, it was about .2 lower! Thanks for the help!