Help w/ eBIAB Kettle Design

[ttuato]

I need some advise from you the pros. I am in the midst of designing a new eBIAB brewing platform.

• Spike 15gal brew kettle - 90% of time it will be full volume mash for 5gal batch w/ recirculation. Occasionally I will do a 10gal batch and sparge. All 1.5" triclover ports. Brew Boss controller w/ 5500w element.

I am torn on a particular design feature that I would like some advice on - whirlpool / recirculation ports. NOTE: I am "sold" on the basket design with full sides or hybrid like @Metzen hence the recirculation vs mesh bag w/ no recirculation. Also I do not like recirc ports in the lid - but I can be swayed....

• The first option is to have separate ports - whirlpool port located ~6" from the bottom and a recirculation port 2" from the top - swap hoses from pump as necessary during the brewing process

• The second option is to have a single port 2" from the top and then sway attachments for recirculation / whirlpool at the appropriate time during the brewing process

Ignoring cost differences is one of these more advisable?

 

[Metzen]

I need some advise from you the pros. I am in the midst of designing a new eBIAB brewing platform.

• Spike 15gal brew kettle - 90% of time it will be full volume mash for 5gal batch w/ recirculation. Occasionally I will do a 10gal batch and sparge. All 1.5" triclover ports. Brew Boss controller w/ 5500w element.

I am torn on a particular design feature that I would like some advice on - whirlpool / recirculation ports. NOTE: I am "sold" on the basket design with full sides or hybrid like @Metzen hence the recirculation vs mesh bag w/ no recirculation. Also I do not like recirc ports in the lid - but I can be swayed....

• The first option is to have separate ports - whirlpool port located ~6" from the bottom and a recirculation port 2" from the top - swap hoses from pump as necessary during the brewing process

• The second option is to have a single port 2" from the top and then sway attachments for recirculation / whirlpool at the appropriate time during the brewing process

Ignoring cost differences is one of these more advisable?

I have a whirlpool port 6” up in my kettle but only to future proof if I want to go back to a 3V HERMS. I don’t use it for BIAB.

My issue with the whirlpool in the side is that I had very little clearance between the basket and the kettle wall. You could probably bend and distort a whirlpool return to fit snugly between them.

Also, given the 6” mark will likely be below your wort level throughout mash and boil, you’ll need another valve on the whirlpool port to stop wort from leaving that port. It would start to add too much bulk to my kettle when I wanted to keep things simple.

I decided a return TC port in the lid with detachable recirculation and whirlpool arms was more elegant for my purpose. There’s no reason you couldn’t do the same thing through a port near the top of the kettle wall given the size of your pot, so I don’t think lid vs side wall for the port matters all that much.

 

[Metzen]

Had issues with the photos in the previous post. Trying again here in new reply...

 

[jmrybak]

Here is my 10g kettle for eBIAB. I recirculate into the bag through a whirlpool arm with the element running. Holds temps dead on and could not be happier. I would caution that the temp probe in the recirculation line may not accurately represent the temp of the grain, but you likely could adjust for this with experience for the most part.

 

[Metzen]

View attachment 548078 View attachment 548080

Here is my 10g kettle for eBIAB. I recirculate into the bag through a whirlpool arm with the element running. Holds temps dead on and could not be happier. I would caution that the temp probe in the recirculation line may not accurately represent the temp of the grain, but you likely could adjust for this with experience for the most part.

Curious where you got your whirlpool arm? Is it press fit into the TC port?

 

[BeardedBrews]

• The second option is to have a single port 2" from the top and then sway attachments for recirculation / whirlpool at the appropriate time during the brewing process

The problem with any side port is that you limit your maximum basket height or diameter, possibly both. That basket size is going to be the limiting factor to your maximum system gravity, even if you're sticking to 5 gallon batches. The smaller batches take a bigger hit from the dead space at the bottom relative to the available basket volume.

@Metzen 's lid approach shows that swapping the fitting is easy to do, and that approach would work in the lid or the side of the kettle. I would go with your second option of a swap-able fitting for sure, I just think you'll be happier in the long run using the lid instead of compromising the size of the basket.

 

[jmrybak]

Curious where you got your whirlpool arm? Is it press fit into the TC port?

I got it over at Norcal, its a single welded piece. I just use my brew bag with the whirlpool arm during the mash for recirc, remove the arm quick and easy after mashing. Then bag comes out, whirlpool arm goes back in for use later. I like the bags for cost and ease of use, but if you were going to use a basket I can see how the arm might get in the way.

 

[jmrybak]

I decided a return TC port in the lid with detachable recirculation and whirlpool arms was more elegant for my purpose. .

Did Spike make this lid for you? I had asked before and they did not offer welding to the lid due to warping concerns.

 

[Metzen]

Did Spike make this lid for you? I had asked before and they did not offer welding to the lid due to warping concerns.

They did. They said it had to be a TC port as I had initially asked about threaded. This was the spec sheet they sent back to me.

 

[jmrybak]

They did. They said it had to be a TC port as I had initially asked about threaded. This was the spec sheet they sent back to me.

View attachment 548099

Very cool, thank you. I am happy with how things turned out with my build but thats a cool option to remember for the future. I like the quick fitting change option.

 

[mj1angier]

My used system came with a over the rim clamp that uses TC fittings. I use the arm in this position to recirc. and can take the arm off and put in the upper TC on the pot to whirpool

 

[trav77]

Seems very similar to my setup: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/recirculating-ebiab-build.596834/

Just out of curiosity - why are you sold on the mesh basket insert? I originally went that way myself but in the end prefer to use a bag and false bottom. My issue with the mesh basket was a) the recirculating wort tended to simply run over to top of the mash and down the sides, resulting in poor temp distribution as well as poor efficiency and b) as you mention it gets in the way of internal fittings, etc.

I'm quite pleased with this setup. Recirc port in the lid (when I ordered from Spike they also would not do a weld on the lid, so I went weldless... for the lid it doesn't matter much). The two TC ports on the front are the pickup and whirlpool fittings (both from NorCal).

 

[ttuato]

Thanks all for the feedback. This is what I have surmised based on it all (see attached diagram)

• Instead of a lower whirlpool port I will put a TC port in the lid. I will recirc through this port similar to @Metzen. This will allow for maximum basket height.
• I will retain the top port for a whirlpool using this device from Norcal similar @jmrybak and insert it after the mash is complete so I can whirlpool. I can customize the length of this to make sure that it lands around the 4gal mark which will work for both 5gal batches & 10gal batches

In response to @trav77 - I am getting a solid sided basket or a hybrid similar to @Metzen. This thread and my experience with a grainfather helped push me in that direction.


NOTE - I currently own and use a Grainfather v2 (26 batches). I consistently hit 78-82% efficiency (double crush + 90min mash was key for me). I am switching from the GF for a few reasons:

• It is not a true "single" vessel. It is a pain to deal with two vessels.
• I want the option to do a 10gal batch at once - double batch days on the GF take forever
• I use a heatwand and graincoat yet it still takes too long to boil because I have to leave the lid off to sparge
• Non-proprietary system components - I had one issue with the GF right after purchase. I thought I would have to warranty return it. It took the support team TWO WEEKS to respond. Luckily I was able to figure out the problem and correct it. I haven't had a problem since, but it left a bad taste my mouth
• SWMBO said I could redo the garage and make a dedicated brewing space. Since I am already set on the cold side with Norcal pimped Speidel fermenters and dedicated fermenting temp controlled mini-fridges, I want to spend my money on some bling.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

My 15 gallon BIAB kettle uses a basket with a mesh bag inside. It’s a High Gravity system pumping wort from the bottom of the kettle to a spray nozzle mounted in the lid.

Here is how I added a whirlpool port that proved to work perfectly with this design.

Add a whirlpool port.

 

[enormous13]

Thanks all for the feedback. This is what I have surmised based on it all (see attached diagram)

• Instead of a lower whirlpool port I will put a TC port in the lid. I will recirc through this port similar to @Metzen. This will allow for maximum basket height.
• I will retain the top port for a whirlpool using this device from Norcal similar @jmrybak and insert it after the mash is complete so I can whirlpool. I can customize the length of this to make sure that it lands around the 4gal mark which will work for both 5gal batches & 10gal batches

In response to @trav77 - I am getting a solid sided basket or a hybrid similar to @Metzen. This thread and my experience with a grainfather helped push me in that direction.


NOTE - I currently own and use a Grainfather v2 (26 batches). I consistently hit 78-82% efficiency (double crush + 90min mash was key for me). I am switching from the GF for a few reasons:

• It is not a true "single" vessel. It is a pain to deal with two vessels.
• I want the option to do a 10gal batch at once - double batch days on the GF take forever
• I use a heatwand and graincoat yet it still takes too long to boil because I have to leave the lid off to sparge
• Non-proprietary system components - I had one issue with the GF right after purchase. I thought I would have to warranty return it. It took the support team TWO WEEKS to respond. Luckily I was able to figure out the problem and correct it. I haven't had a problem since, but it left a bad taste my mouth
• SWMBO said I could redo the garage and make a dedicated brewing space. Since I am already set on the cold side with Norcal pimped Speidel fermenters and dedicated fermenting temp controlled mini-fridges, I want to spend my money on some bling.

Any updates on this build ttuato? I'm looking to get a basket soon, and also am leaning toward a solid sided version like you've mentioned. I'll also be utilizing a 1.5" TC port an inch or so down from the brim of my kettle to use that NorCal whirlpool arm you linked towards the end of the boil (sanitize with IC). During most of the boil I'm going to utilize Brundogs Condenser on the same TC port, just swap out the fittings. I recirculate through the lid also.

 

[ttuato]

Any updates on this build ttuato? I'm looking to get a basket soon, and also am leaning toward a solid sided version like you've mentioned. I'll also be utilizing a 1.5" TC port an inch or so down from the brim of my kettle to use that NorCal whirlpool arm you linked towards the end of the boil (sanitize with IC). During most of the boil I'm going to utilize Brundogs Condenser on the same TC port, just swap out the fittings. I recirculate through the lid also.

I ended up NOT getting a basket and use @wilserbrewer bag. It occurred to me that by using a solid side basket I would be introducing a likely scenario of requiring a sparge. I installed a pulley and hoist the bag in air and let it drain - I do not squeeze it though. (See brulosophy exbeeriments - less haze & better aroma - only discernible on lagers not hazy IPAs)

Also I bought a grain mill, and condition the malt before grinding

Add those together I consisentlly get 77% - 83% efficiency depending on the size of grain bill.


I recirc thru the whirlpool TC during mash and whirlpool hop after boil. Only regret here is the chiller I bought. I bought the xchillerator, when hooked into my pump the output at the whirlpool is severly lacking. If going with CFC get at badass pump, if getting a small pump then get a Jaded IC.

 

[mj1angier]

So, I am swapping to a bag and false bottom. I like the metal basket, but lose some space/ draining with it. I have a solid side basket and it will not drain fast enough for me. I have to throttle back a lot to keep pump working

 

[ttuato]

Bag & false bottom is what I use, and definitely recommend.

 

[ExMachina]

My used system came with a over the rim clamp that uses TC fittings. I use the arm in this position to recirc. and can take the arm off and put in the upper TC on the pot to whirpool
View attachment 548101

Just found this thread as I'm trying to decide what pot I want to go with and whether I want TC port up high on the kettle (so pardon the zombe thread).

In the above pic, it looks like you could just turn the arm upside down through the TC port for the recirc too. WOuld that work?

 

[mj1angier]

Just found this thread as I'm trying to decide what pot I want to go with and whether I want TC port up high on the kettle (so pardon the zombe thread).

In the above pic, it looks like you could just turn the arm upside down through the TC port for the recirc too. WOuld that work?

Problem is there is a bag in there that hangs over the edge of pot, so it would not be going back into the center of the grain bed.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Problem is there is a bag in there that hangs over the edge of pot, so it would not be going back into the center of the grain bed.

Ok so it is not going into the center of the grain bed? In practice is this a problem?

It is actually going tangentially into the substantial volume of wort that is above the grain bed where mixing will occur, then that volume of wort is drawn through the grain bed many times resulting in a very homogeneous mixture over time.

Jmo, I prefer not to overthink...

 

[mj1angier]

Jmo, I prefer not to overthink...

I like the way it works and the results I get. To each his own.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Sorry mj1, I think perhaps I misunderstood.

I was referring to your tubing return not being in the center of the pot and perhaps it not making a difference, and perhaps you were referring to a side port discharging outside the bag into the side of the bag?

In the case of a side port, when asked I will make a bag with a finished open seam so the bag can be fitted under a side port allowing the wort to return into the bag.

With a over the rim tubing return like yours, you are discharging in the bag which is more favorable, I would think...

 

[mj1angier]

Yes, if i used the side port, the wort would be outside the bag. With the over the rim set up, it goes into the middle on top of the grain bed