Help Size First All Grain System

[Cogswell]

I'm getting back into the hobby after a two decade absence. I brewed kits and extract recipes back in the day.

I looked into BIAB and the Robobrew type systems but they don't appeal to me.

I want to brew all-grain using the standard three vessel system. I plan to outfit my tun with a false bottom and pump for Vorlauf, and a RIMS tube to hold mash temperature.

I want to produce 5 gallons (no less) of any style of beer without hassles no matter how giant the grain bill. I don't want a doughy mess in the tun and I don't want to stand eagle eyed over the kettle fearing a boil over.

From my extract days, I know there are losses during racking. I assume there are additional losses throughout the all-grain process but I haven't found ways to estimate them.

I'm doing this on a budget, otherwise I'd get 15 gallon vessels across the board and be done with it.

What size Hot Liquor Tank, Mash Tun, and Boil Kettle should I buy?

 

[Velnerj]

One thing I've learned is that bigger is better. You can (usually) brew smaller batches on bigger systems but if one day you decide to go bigger it's much more expensive/difficult.

For 5 gallon batches though you'd be OK with a 10g converted igloo cooler for mash tun. 5-7g HLT and no smaller than 8g boil kettle. I've seen people use coffee percolators for HLT perhaps that's a cheeper route if you brew near electricity.

 

[csantoni]

I want to produce 5 gallons (no less) of any style of beer without hassles no matter how giant the grain bill.

You’ll definitely want at least a 10 gal mash tun. I use a 5 gal igloo and my upper limit is about 11 lbs of grain and 1.060 OG.

 

[Barbarossa]

Just a thought that I had recently.

I started by doing 5g batches. I wished I could do 10g. Then I realized that I should be practicing so 5g was perfect. For sometimes, I entertained the idea of scaling up. Then I realized that I do like to brew, so I don't mind doing it often. And I dont like to drink two kegs in a row that are the same. I actually prefer having many styles on rotation. Hefe's are my favorite. I love English brown beer, Vienna lagers, German altbier is one of my favorite, especially if I can afford to lager it a bit.

Then I tried a few specialty beer, like an Irish Red with Barbe Rouge ( means red beard; I'm not a red head, I just have a red beard)

Less than 5g is way too much cleaning for so little reward . So 5g it is for me. If I wanted only one or two recipes, I'd definitely want to scale up. But to me, variety is the main factor.

 

[Cogswell]

One thing I've learned is that bigger is better. You can (usually) brew smaller batches on bigger systems but if one day you decide to go bigger it's much more expensive/difficult.

For 5 gallon batches though you'd be OK with a 10g converted igloo cooler for mash tun. 5-7g HLT and no smaller than 8g boil kettle. I've seen people use coffee percolators for HLT perhaps that's a cheeper route if you brew near electricity.

So an 8 gallon HLT, 10 gallon Igloo cooler, and 8 gallon boil kettle would allow me to brew 5 galllons of anything? Even an Octuple Imperial?

I've seen people use coffee percolators for HLT perhaps that's a cheeper route if you brew near electricity.

I'm going all electric. I should have mentioned that in my initial post.

The coffee urn (percolator) idea is genius but the wattages seem low. I have a 240V 50A circuit available in my brew space. I'd like to use as much of that power as possible.

If I wanted only one or two recipes, I'd definitely want to scale up. But to me, variety is the main factor.

I feel exactly the same way. I like to have multiple beers available and there's only so much space in the kegerator. Even if I built a bigger kegerator, I wouldn't want beer hanging around for the better part of a year waiting to be drunk.

My kegerator is small so I plan to buy a few of the small Torpedo kegs (1.5 and 2.5 gallons) so I can maintain a selection. I should be able to fit one standard 5G corny plus a few of the little torpedos for variety. That's my plan anyway.

 

[Golddiggie]

If you're not looking to go above a 6 gallon batch size, 10 gallon kettles/vessels should be enough. If you think you'll ever want to go above 6 gallons (up to 11-12 gallons) then get a 15 gallon setup.

When I switched to electric I purchased a 15 gallon HLT (had a 15 gallon MT) and a 20 gallon BK. I went larger on the BK so that I'm able to do larger boils. With the 15 gallon MT, I'd need to do a double sparge (or fly sparge) to get my pre-boil volume for 12+ gallon batch sizes (finished beer volume/amount). With the HERMS coil in the HLT, running the wort from the MT through it, I can maintain my mash temperature for the entire time.

With a 50A 240v outlet available (assuming it's a 14-50 outlet, or you can change it to that) you also have double batching available to you. Provided you get the gear that supports it. That being said, the setup won't be cheap. I dropped a good amount on the control panel (from Electric Brewing Supply) after trying the BrewBuilt controllers (found lacking). I now have a single control panel that has all the controls, and PIDs I need for brewing.

 

[Cogswell]

With a 50A 240v outlet available (assuming it's a 14-50 outlet, or you can change it to that) you also have double batching available to you. Provided you get the gear that supports it. That being said, the setup won't be cheap. I dropped a good amount on the control panel (from Electric Brewing Supply) after trying the BrewBuilt controllers (found lacking). I now have a single control panel that has all the controls, and PIDs I need for brewing.

I'll DIY my own computerized control system at some point. I can do that for the cost of a few inexpensive microcontrollers and assorted electronic parts.

To start off, I plan to control everything manually with 240V capable "dimmers" and good old analog thermometers. No better way to learn exactly what's needed for the computerized version, I recon.

I have a plan for an ultra cheap RIMS as well. No water heater element or fancy triclamp RIMS tube needed. I'll post about it if it works out.

 

[oakbarn]

One regret we have always had, we did not go bigger.
You cannot beat something like the SS Infusion Mash Tun (or the Chapmann Thermobarrel if you can find one) as they hold the mash very well without a RIMS.

We have a normal MLT and one of the Chapmann Thermobarrel for a second batch.

We had the SS Infusion ones (destroyed in a fire). My only issue was the size of the Thermowell which was small diameter and had to buy a new Temp Probe as none of ours would fit ( we log the temps so the little digital one was not used).

We use a Counter flow Chiller as a HERMS type system where we heat the water bath with a RIMS Type Setup and the Wort thru the inner tube. I would go as big as your budget will stand, as if you want to make a bigger batch, you can.

With 15 Gal size, you can brew up to 10 gal (watching the Boil).

I would get a even bigger Electric HLT (maybe 20 gal). You can never have enough hot brewing water.

15 gal MLT and BK will work for 5 gal batches. We do larger (normally around 22 gals) and we have some equipment loss. Bottom Drain vessels mean less loss.

 

[hotbeer]

I want to produce 5 gallons (no less) of any style of beer without hassles no matter how giant the grain bill. I don't want a doughy mess in the tun and I don't want to stand eagle eyed over the kettle fearing a boil over.

Is that realistic? While I too like lofty idealism, pragmatism tells me that won't happen.

 

[Golddiggie]

@Cogswell Just don't go cheap on the electronic controller components. The better panel makers use quality components since it's their name on the box and reputation on the line. While I'm rather happy with the panel I'm using now, I kind of wish I had gone with the LCD panel version. I need to reach out to the maker to find out about integrating the SCL pump into the LCD panel. I could be looking at changing the panel sometime in the coming 6-12 months to that model. Provided it hits a few items on my list.

Seems like I'm often upgrading my gear/hardware to another level higher.

Is that realistic? While I too like lofty idealism, pragmatism tells me that won't happen.

IMO/IME, the OP needs to figure out what his max grain bill would be, how much volume/space that will require and really size [at the very least] the MT accordingly. If longer boils are projected, then he'll also need to figure out the maximum amount of wort going into the BK and make sure that's also correctly sized.

When I did the 12 gallon batch using the Spike+ MT the sparge (batch sparge) was right at the edge of what it could handle. No problems for the BK though.

 

[oakbarn]

Is that realistic? While I too like lofty idealism, pragmatism tells me that won't happen.

We have had boil overs with a 25 gal of Wort in a 45 gal BK.

 

[Golddiggie]

We have had boil overs with a 25 gal of Wort in a 45 gal BK.

How?? Seriously with 20 gallons of headspace how HARD of a boil were you doing in order to get that to happen?? Unless the thing was shaped like a bath tub, where you had only a couple of inches of space above the wort, I can't imagine having that happen. Unless you set the heat source at maximum and walked away for too long (in other words "user error code ID:10T ).

 

[oakbarn]

It was a Standard Stout Brew Kettle. We use high pressure propane and our Boil Watcher got distracted. We are normally full bore until the Wort Boils. We should have turned down the burner as soon as the Boil started. 99% of the time we have no issues. Just the time it did!!!!!

We have thought of adding a Computer fan above the Kettle to keep down the foam when the boil starts to make cleaning easier.

 

[Barbarossa]

The coffee urn (percolator) idea is genius but the wattages seem low. I have a 240V 50A circuit available in my brew space. I'd like to use as much of that power as possible.

The grain father sparge water heater is a perfect hlt for me.It holds 4g, heats up in a decent amount of time and you can kind of control the temperature, although not as precise as my anvil foundry. But does the job for cheap.

 

[Cogswell]

You cannot beat something like the SS Infusion Mash Tun (or the Chapmann Thermobarrel if you can find one) as they hold the mash very well without a RIMS.

$300-$500 is more than I want to spend on a tun. There are a million things to buy to go from zero to a working all-grain setup. I'm also rehabbing a kegerator at the moment and I have other hobbies that suck up $$$.

With 15 Gal size, you can brew up to 10 gal (watching the Boil).

I expect most of my brews will be 1.5 or 2.5 gallons (to fit the above mentioned Torpedo kegs). 5 gallon batches will be the minority of my brews.

Look at it this way:
Imagine I came here asking to size a system for 2.5 gallon batches.
Other members advised "Prepare for the future! You will want to brew bigger batches!"
I took their advice and changed my request to a 5 gallon system.

My request for a 5 gallon system is already pre-upgraded from 2.5 gallons. My 5 gallons is your 10 gallon upgrade. Make sense?

Is that realistic? While I too like lofty idealism, pragmatism tells me that won't happen.

I look forward to trying outlandish recipes. That's a major benefit of homebrewing. High on my list is "the biggest beer I can find" whether that's a 200X Imperial or something else I don't know.

I tried to find a recipe for the "biggest beer" but didn't have much success. It would be very helpful to have that recipe right now when I'm sizing my system. Maybe folks can suggest candidates? Googling "biggest beer recipe" was not very fruitful...

Just don't go cheap on the electronic controller components. The better panel makers use quality components since it's their name on the box and reputation on the line.

Unless you're talking about switches, dials, and displays, there really isn't much difference between electronic components. Some are rated for harsher environments (temperature, vibration, radiation) but that's about the only differentiation.

My vision of an "endgame" brew controller is a single nice big capacitive touch display, no switches, knobs, dials, or other display devices. Probably similar to BrewPi although I haven't looked into that project.

IMO/IME, the OP needs to figure out what his max grain bill would be, how much volume/space that will require and really size [at the very least] the MT accordingly. If longer boils are projected, then he'll also need to figure out the maximum amount of wort going into the BK and make sure that's also correctly sized.

I agree %100! However, being new to all-grain I don't know how to do any of that. That's exactly why I started this thread.

 

[Golddiggie]

Find some kegs and make keggles for the MT, BK and HLT. Then it's just a matter of deciding if you want to go with TC/welded or no weld connections. I've done both and can't recommend going with TC connections highly enough. Easier to keep clean, easier to take apart, etc.
With a keggle MT, you can get one of the Jaybird false bottoms. Mine worked great, while I was using the keggle MT. It went to a new owner when I upgraded to the Spike+ setup.
If you know any welders (that TIG) you can usually get things done a lot cheaper than if you have to pay a shop. I'm lucky in that I have a friend that TIG welds for a living. He also works for beer, so it's a win-win for both of us. I typically bring what I need welded up already prepared for him and just give him the info needed to get it done to what I want/need. Several years back (around 2011) I brought what I needed to be TIG welded to a small, independent, shop. He did good work at a reasonable rate. No idea what TIG welding goes for these days (for larger shops).

As for the control panel parts, there are differences in the PIDs that will matter. IMO, going cheap there isn't worth the reduced initial spend. I've often found that not going at least with mid-tier items resulted in a higher spend since they would be replaced too soon with higher level items that wouldn't need replacing again.

 

[Cogswell]

The grain father sparge water heater is a perfect hlt for me.It holds 4g, heats up in a decent amount of time and you can kind of control the temperature, although not as precise as my anvil foundry. But does the job for cheap.

I looked at the Digiboil line which is similar. Tempting...especially since Digiboil has 240V models in 35 and 65 liters with 2400 and 3500 watts respectively.

I considered using the 240V 3500W model for both HLT and Boil Kettle, stashing hot water in a second Igloo or something after heating. What kills it for me is the size of the heating element. It looks to be about 6 inches in diameter on the Youtube reviews. The review I saw showed wort scorching directly over the heating element.

I can't justify the price of the Digiboil for HLT alone.

 

[Cogswell]

Find some kegs and make keggles for the MT, BK and HLT. Then it's just a matter of deciding if you want to go with TC/welded or no weld connections. I've done both and can't recommend going with TC connections highly enough. Easier to keep clean, easier to take apart, etc.
With a keggle MT, you can get one of the Jaybird false bottoms. Mine worked great, while I was using the keggle MT. It went to a new owner when I upgraded to the Spike+ setup.
If you know any welders (that TIG) you can usually get things done a lot cheaper than if you have to pay a shop. I'm lucky in that I have a friend that TIG welds for a living. He also works for beer, so it's a win-win for both of us. I typically bring what I need welded up already prepared for him and just give him the info needed to get it done to what I want/need. Several years back (around 2011) I brought what I needed to be TIG welded to a small, independent, shop. He did good work at a reasonable rate. No idea what TIG welding goes for these days (for larger shops).

Would be nice to go that route but not practical for me due to space and cost constraints.

As for the control panel parts, there are differences in the PIDs that will matter. IMO, going cheap there isn't worth the reduced initial spend. I've often found that not going at least with mid-tier items resulted in a higher spend since they would be replaced too soon with higher level items that wouldn't need replacing again.

I won't use off the shelf PID controllers. Manual control to start out. When I build my brew controller, PID will be done in software on a microcontroller.

 

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

I have a 10 gallon burco for the mash, and a 5.5 gallon burco for the boil, and I ferment in a 13 litre and 9 litre stainless steel pan with lid. Keep it simple works for me..........

 

[bwible]

I look forward to trying outlandish recipes. That's a major benefit of homebrewing. High on my list is "the biggest beer I can find" whether that's a 200X Imperial or something else I don't know.

I tried to find a recipe for the "biggest beer" but didn't have much success. It would be very helpful to have that recipe right now when I'm sizing my system. Maybe folks can suggest candidates? Googling "biggest beer recipe" was not very fruitful...

A gott cooler mash tun with a stainless false bottom is about the least expensive you’re going to find. I still have mine even though I bought an Anvil Foundry. I got the 6.5 Foundry which has an 8 lb grain capacity. My gott cooler is 5 gallons and will hold about 12 lbs.

I normally brew 3 gallon batches and the Foundry works for all my “normal” batches. I use the gott cooler when I want a little more. I think I can get a 3 gallon batch up to about 1.090 by maxing the cooler.

When you make big beers you can use the same mash tun and make a smaller batch. 2.5 gallons or whatever. There is also the option to supplement your mash by adding some extract to the boil. 3 gallons at 1.090 and a pound or two of extract and I’m easily over 1.100. I don’t know that I ever need to go over that. I brew a barleywine once a year.

If I recall, the strongest beer used to be Sam Adams Utopias which claims 28%. If you google you might find a recipe, I never looked. Sounds like a rabbit hole…

 

[hottpeper13]

Your FIRST all grain set up means an upgrade in the future! I suggest that anything you buy should be able to be used in your future set up. I think a 15 gal kettle and a bag with hoist would be a good first system. I can fit and lift a 34 lb grain bill, if making a 11 gal batch I'd need to employ my HLT.

Check out the recipe for Samiclaus, I think it has an OG ~1.135

 

[WesBrew]

I have a mix of 10 and 15 gallon vessels for up to 11 gallon batches. I just did 11gallons of Helles with 18.5lb of malts in 10 gallon/false bottom tun. could have squeezed a couple more in there.

 

[Cogswell]

If I recall, the strongest beer used to be Sam Adams Utopias which claims 28%. If you google you might find a recipe, I never looked.

Thanks! First beer for the list.

Sounds like a rabbit hole…

It is. Already lost an evening to it.

Your FIRST all grain set up means an upgrade in the future! I suggest that anything you buy should be able to be used in your future set up. I think a 15 gal kettle and a bag with hoist would be a good first system. I can fit and lift a 34 lb grain bill, if making a 11 gal batch I'd need to employ my HLT.

Check out the recipe for Samiclaus, I think it has an OG ~1.135

Thanks! I'll add it to my big beer list.

 

[Cogswell]

Sam Adams Utopias seems impossible for the average small timer homebrewer due to aging in various types of wooden barrels and mixing different years.

Apparently, the December 2004 issue of BYO magazine features a few different Samiclaus clones.

Someone on another board used 42 pounds of pilsner to make 6 gallons of an unnamed Samiclaus clone ending with a 1.134 FG.

Most of the other recipes I found use DME to supplement grain due to limited tun size. I forgot that was an option until bwible mentioned it.

One guy mashed 15 gallons of wort in the tun and boiled down to 5 gallons in the kettle.

Apparently, very high gravity beers are best done with stepped fermentation where you pitch into a lower gravity, wait for krausen to maximize, then add additional fermentables. Interesting, since you don't need to mash all the required grains up front.

I see there's a lot to learn in all-grain brewing.

How many pounds of grain fit into a 10 gallon Igloo with false bottom? That's most likely what I will go with.

 

[Velnerj]

Sam Adams Utopias seems impossible for the average small timer homebrewer due to aging in various types of wooden barrels and mixing different years.

Apparently, the December 2004 issue of BYO magazine features a few different Samiclaus clones.

Someone on another board used 42 pounds of pilsner to make 6 gallons of an unnamed Samiclaus clone ending with a 1.134 FG.

Most of the other recipes I found use DME to supplement grain due to limited tun size. I forgot that was an option until bwible mentioned it.

One guy mashed 15 gallons of wort in the tun and boiled down to 5 gallons in the kettle.

Apparently, very high gravity beers are best done with stepped fermentation where you pitch into a lower gravity, wait for krausen to maximize, then add additional fermentables. Interesting, since you don't need to mash all the required grains up front.

I see there's a lot to learn in all-grain brewing.

How many pounds of grain fit into a 10 gallon Igloo with false bottom? That's most likely what I will go with.

I'm just going to leave this here...
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/falconclaws-samichlaus/

 

[Cogswell]

I'm just going to leave this here...
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/falconclaws-samichlaus/

Thank you! Definitely a must-try!

 

[Deadalus]

Just a thought that I had recently.

I started by doing 5g batches. I wished I could do 10g. Then I realized that I should be practicing so 5g was perfect. For sometimes, I entertained the idea of scaling up. Then I realized that I do like to brew, so I don't mind doing it often. And I dont like to drink two kegs in a row that are the same. I actually prefer having many styles on rotation. Hefe's are my favorite. I love English brown beer, Vienna lagers, German altbier is one of my favorite, especially if I can afford to lager it a bit.

Then I tried a few specialty beer, like an Irish Red with Barbe Rouge ( means red beard; I'm not a red head, I just have a red beard)

Less than 5g is way too much cleaning for so little reward . So 5g it is for me. If I wanted only one or two recipes, I'd definitely want to scale up. But to me, variety is the main factor.

I can brew 10 gallon batches but generally do five for similar reasons. I also think the same about cleaning and time vs reward. @Cogswell your brew day is going to be several times longer than before.

Keep an eye out on FB marketplace and here though and you could save some bucks on pots and coolers. I've seen a lot of coolers there if that's the way you want to go.

 

[Beernik]

Equipment is the most expensive part of brewing. My advice is always: decide what the largest beer you want to brew is and size your equipment between 1.5x and 2x larger.

If all you want to brew is 5 gallons, buying 10 gallon equipment makes sense. If you ever want to size up, you’ll be buying everything again.

If you are confident you are buying the right sizes, buy that kettle and do one vessel brewing until you have the funds to purchase the second kettle. Then expand to two vessel brewing, etc.

 

[Cogswell]

All you Size Up guys will be happy to hear I ended up with 16 gallon pots. I ran across a great deal on ShopTheBayou when I was shopping.

Bayou Classic 1316 Tri-Plys for $97 free shipping.

All Tri-Ply's were 35% off plus a 10% new customer discount. 8 and 10 were sold out so I went with 16 gallon. More than I need but for $97 I figured why not. It's easy to spend that much on regular 8-10 gallon pots.

I wonder if they're discontinuing the Tri-Ply models or if it's a Fall sale thing...?

 

[KyBeer]

Hope this feed is still active. Looking for advice on what size, (volume) of a mash tun needed for a 10 gallon brew system, (15 gallon HLT & BK). I brew Imperial IPAs and my 10 gallon cooler will only handle 5 gallon Imperials.

 

[bwible]

Equipment is the most expensive part of brewing. My advice is always: decide what the largest beer you want to brew is and size your equipment between 1.5x and 2x larger.

Thats all well and good until you go to brew your “regular” beer and find the mash tun is entirely too large and you have no depth of grain for your lauter.

I have an Anvil Foundry 6.5 which has an 8 lb grain capacity. I normally brew 3 gallon batches. Yes that it is a problem when I go to brew an Imperial Stout or a barleywine. But I can always supplement those mashes with extract.

It’s a bigger problem when I go to brew a Scottish 70 with an og of 1.040 and find out for 3 gallons I only need 3.5 pounds of grain. Like I said, no depth of grain bed for the lauter and the wort never runs clear. I have to go up to a 5 gallon batch just to get enough grain for the wort to run clear. Not that its a terrible issue but I don’t usually brew 5 gallons because I don’t want to clean 50 bottles, sanitize 50 bottles, fill 50 bottles, and cap 50 bottles and then have 50 bottles on hand.

Bigger is not always better.

 

[AkTom]

I got the Anvil 10.5. It does 5 gallon batches fine. Sometimes I like doing 10 gallon batches. For them I have to fire up my old propane setup. It has a 15 gallon keggle. That’s barely big enough.
I wish now I would have waited for the Anvil 18… oh well, I make it work.
Cheers

 

[hottpeper13]

i have a friend with the Spike 3 vessel system and he has 15 gal HLT and BK with a 20 gal MLT so he can make high gravity barrel beers.
I have all 15 gal vessels and had that no depth of filter bed when doing 1.050 - 5 gal brews. I installed a pulley system and went BIAB for 5 gal and do MIAB for 10 and 15 gal batches.

 

[Beernik]

Thats all well and good until you go to brew your “regular” beer and find the mash tun is entirely too large and you have no depth of grain for your lauter.

I have an Anvil Foundry 6.5 which has an 8 lb grain capacity. I normally brew 3 gallon batches. Yes that it is a problem when I go to brew an Imperial Stout or a barleywine. But I can always supplement those mashes with extract.

It’s a bigger problem when I go to brew a Scottish 70 with an og of 1.040 and find out for 3 gallons I only need 3.5 pounds of grain. Like I said, no depth of grain bed for the lauter and the wort never runs clear. I have to go up to a 5 gallon batch just to get enough grain for the wort to run clear. Not that its a terrible issue but I don’t usually brew 5 gallons because I don’t want to clean 50 bottles, sanitize 50 bottles, fill 50 bottles, and cap 50 bottles and then have 50 bottles on hand.

Bigger is not always better.

I will admit, I am unfamiliar with the problems of small batch brewing or all-in-one systems. The smallest I’ve ever brewed is 4 gallons & I’ve always piecemealed my system.

I’ve had 5, 7, 10, & 15 gallon BKs and various sized BIAB bags and MLT coolers.

I finally settled on a 15 gallon keggle & 15 gallon BIAB bag. Now I can brew anything I want between 4 & 9 gallons. I can get to 10 gallon brews if I don’t full volume mash & keep the grain bill under 22lbs.

 

[AkTom]

 

[Bobby_M]

If I could go back to 2007, I would tell myself to brew BIAB from the start.

 

[deuc224]

Its what i did. I got the brewtools b80(was gonna get a b40 at first) and can go from 5.5 gallon batches to 15 gallon batches, grain bill maxes out at 44lbs. Just did a BDS and kinda overcooked it so it came out at 1.102 but I have a big yeast starter and used some yeast nutrient and oxygenated the wort for 8 minutes at 1/4 lpm of pure o2. Hoping it pushes thru any pitfalls this beer has like stalls.

 

[dotf]

I bought the cooler system from Northern Brewer for $300 and it works great. Comes with a HLT and a Mash Tun. You’ll need your own kettle and burner. The only down side is there’s no temperature control in the Mash Tun so if you miss your strike water temperature you’ll end up scrambling and throwing another gallon of boiling water in.