Help on a recipe - Rye Hefe

[NWOKBrewer]

So, getting a recipe together and had the following idea for a hoppy, rye flavored hefeweizen:
33% Wheat
33% Rye
33% Pilsner
1lb Rice hulls (surely needed based on mash thickness)
3.5oz Columbus or Citra @ 60
3.5oz Amarillo @ 0
3.5oz Amarillo or Williamette @ Dry hop ~7 days
Some type of Weizen yeast

Mashed @ 154ish at 1.5thickness

thoughts? I had found a few other recipes that had a ratio closer to 40%, 30%, 20%....but thought I'd level them out.
I'd appreciate input on the recipe AND what type of yeast. Thanks in advance!!!

 

[OswaldvW]

I would think with those hops I would not use a German Hefeweizen yeast. Go more with WLP 001 or if you want a German yeast, use a Kölsch or Altbier yeast like Wyeast 1007. or, if you like a little fruitiness, Wyeast 1028 or 1318.

 

[mongoose33]

That's going to be one bitter beer if you put 3.5 ounces of Columbus in at 60 minutes. You may need more rice hulls with that much Rye and Wheat in there.

 

[dmtaylor]

Looks yummy to me. I think Wyeast 1007 is a very solid option and what I would recommend.

 

[Lefou]

"Some type of weizen yeast" ...

With the amount and type of hops given, the beer won't be "German-style" and that may not even be the point. To accent hops with a beer like this the water should be balanced toward a bit extra sulfate. I might use WLP320 yeast but to get the aromas and flavors of a true hefeweizen, 3068 or WLP300 will do.

German-style weissbiers will sport gravities around 1.045-1.050 and IBU levels near 8-15. The bittering of Amarillo or Citra will give alpha acids double or even triple what you'd expect from Hallertau or Saaz hops. The bittering in this beer would border on a wheat IPA, in my opinion.

 

[NWOKBrewer]

Wow, these are some great replies! In regards to Mongoose's statement, the point of the columbus @ 60 is not for bittering, it's more for hoppy aroma. Does anyone second his statement...or does everyone feel that this will lean more towards the aroma end?
To be honest, I'm looking to get a hoppy, weizen/wheat style. I am 100% open to suggestions on tweaking the recipe. Input is appreciated.

 

[dmtaylor]

You'll have 100 IBUs with the recipe above, assuming you're making 5-6 gallons. If 10-15 gallons, you'll still have 60-70 IBUs depending if you choose Columbus or Citra and assuming average alpha acids for these of 15% and 12% respectively.

In any case, I would take the 3.5 oz Columbus or Citra @60 down to maybe 1.0-1.5 oz @5, that would be less bitterness and more slammable at just 50-60 IBUs for 5-6 gallons. Don't worry... it will be very very hoppy.

Even if you're making like 15 gallons, you'll probably want to reduce the bittering hops unless you really want 60-70 IBUs.

 

[thehaze]

3.5 oz Columbus boiled for 60 minutes will get you what...more than 70-80 IBUs? That's a lot. That's like IPA/DIPA territoty. If you want more hop aroma, add to flameout or whirlpool and don't go more than 30 IBUs in total. It might be a Hefe, but lots of bitterness are not going to make it very pleasent.

You will not get any aroma by boiling a large amount of hops for 60 minutes.

 

[mongoose33]

Wow, these are some great replies! In regards to Mongoose's statement, the point of the columbus @ 60 is not for bittering, it's more for hoppy aroma. Does anyone second his statement...or does everyone feel that this will lean more towards the aroma end?
To be honest, I'm looking to get a hoppy, weizen/wheat style. I am 100% open to suggestions on tweaking the recipe. Input is appreciated.

There are two reasons why that's not going to work. First is that hoppy aroma compounds boil off; that's why for aroma hops people put them in very late in the boil, at whirlpool, and certainly with dry hopping. You'll have effectively no aroma from hops at 60 minutes.

Second, Columbus has a relatively high percentage of alpha acids. These are converted via isomerization during the boil to bittering compounds. It's why hops added late produce very little bitterness relative to those added at 60 minutes. I just checked on the AA percentage on some current Columbus--13.4 percent, which is high. Adding 3.5 ounces of that at 60 minutes is going to convert a ton of those AA to bittering compounds which, for a hefe, is a ton.

Now, if that's what you want--and I'd think that bitterness will overwhelm not only the rye flavor (I brew rye beers myself, love 'em), but the hefe characteristics--then go for it.

All I can say is I can't recall a recipe that uses 3.5 ounces of 13.4 AA% at 60 minutes. I don't do DIPAs so maybe there is one, but man, if this is a 5-gallon batch, it'll be one bitter beer.

These are just observations; if that's what you're going for, take a shot, see how it turns out, and report back. And up the rice hulls to make sure you don't get stuck.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

This definitely looks more like a specialty IPA, not that there's anything wrong with that. You could use WLP351, or if you wanted you could use a witbier yeast and make a white IPA of sorts. Definitely bring the bittering charge down.

 

[SanPancho]

If you do in fact want the hefe, drop almost all the hops to like 10~15ibus. Get your flavor from the yeast and the rye. Rye to me is subtle, i need to go heavy on it and add a bit of crystal rye to get it to pop. Like 25 and 5%.

If you do in fact want hoppy rye beer, then keep going with maybe a more reasonable hopping rate as suggested above.

I tried making a hef~roggen. The banana got too high, it wasnt good. Jusy FYI.