Help me win a couple of arguments against my father in law

[remthewanderer]

Background:
So my father in law has jumped head first into wine making. We currently have 35 gallons of Pinot Noir fermenting in my basement. He bought fresh grapes and the crusher/destemmer along with huge fermenters. He has got a nice setup going.

Argument #1: He has a stainless stirring/mashing paddle that he has been sanitizing by spraying with a sulfite solution then rinsing off. As a die hard starsan user, it is KILLING me that he rinses his equipment with tap water AFTER sanitizing.

I brew beer. I keep a 5 gallon batch of star san on hand at all time. I tell him just to store his paddle in my star san batch. He insists on rinsing it off before using it because he can not understand how the starsan will not kill his yeast.

I don't really understand the chemistry behind why starsan will sanitize equipment but not kill yeast. Is it a matter of dilution? Is it that there is so little starsan left on the surface of a paddle that it does not matter when you stick it in to mash grapes?

I've learned to not fear the foam but how can I convince him? I'm assuming that starsan works just as fine for winemaking as it does for brewing.

Arguement #2: Fermax yeast nutrient. Bottle says 1 tsp per gallon. That seems like way too much, for this batch that would mean 35 teaspoons which is almost two 4 oz bottles. I also hate when measurements are given in volume and not weight. I've seen measurements online of 1 gram per gallon. By weighing out a teaspoon of fermax, I come to find that one rounded teaspoon is about 9 grams.

So which should it be? 1 gram per gallon or 1 teaspoon (approz 9 grams) per gallon? We picked the 1 gram per gallon because we could always add more in a day or so.

Thanks!

 

[Heavywalker]

#1 sanstar will not hurt the wine, but rinsing the paddle off with tap water will not hurt either, assuming the tap water is not contaminated. I use water straight out of the tap for wine kits and fruit wines (no boil) and have yet to have a batch go bad.

#2 weight is a better/more accurate way to measure.

 

[TyTanium]

StarSan is a no-rinse sanitizer. It kills via low pH. If it's diluted (in say, wine or beer), the pH rises and it no longer kills. It's not a harsh chemical like weed killer or something. It's phosphoric acid - which is also in Coca-Cola. I believe it degrades into a yeast nutrient.

But I wouldn't store the paddle in it. Acid + metal + time = bad.

 

[coypoo]

1) its pH killing for StarSan. But when you stick some of the foam into something, there is so little actual volume of StarSan, it is quickly diluted and no longer effective.

As long as the tap water isnt contaminated its fine to rinse, but unnecessary with StarSan.

2) no comment.

 

[cyberlord]

#1 The others covered it pretty good. I spray the StarSan into the 1 gallon carboys so the surfaces are coated with mist. Then roll the liquid around the sides of the carboy and finally tip the carboy and roll while the StarSan empties out the neck. Very little waste and no suds. I do a final check to make sure there is no puddle in the carboy before I pour the must into it.

#2 - Grapes usually don't need much nutrient as they contain just about everything needed to make wine, even the yeast. However adding some nutrient won't hurt either. Add a little bit at the start or in the starter yeast batch and then stagger a little more over time especially if you notice sulfur smells. As long as the ferment is going good and no funky smells are present and the SG is reducing then you may not need to add any nutrient at all.

For fruit/juice (country) wines that are lower in nutrients I add about a 1/4 tsp per gallon 4 times over the course of the fermentation, so a full teaspoon per gallon in all. I stagger it so the ferment runs longer. Never had a funky smell.

 

[Honda88]

tap water usually contains low levels of chemicals which is why a lot of people filter there water before drinking it. It is perfectly fine to rinse with tap water and airlock with tap water.....

 

[gratus fermentatio]

The sufite solution should not be rinsed either. From Grapestompers:

"Campden Tablets
These little tablets (Potassium Metabisulfite is the active ingredient) work wonders; not only do they "clean" must prior to pitching yeast, but adding crushed campden tablets to water also makes a great sanitizing solution for winemaking equipment. Each campden tablet supplies about 67 mg / liter (PPM) per gallon at pH between 3.2 and 3.5. As it turns out, it's good to have a little free SO2 in your wine (between 40 - 60 PPM), so there's no need to rinse your equipment after sanitizing with this agent.
METHOD: In order to obtain a sanitizing solution of 940 PPM SO2, crush 14 campden tablets and dissolve into 1 gallon of water.*

Potassium Metabisulfite Powder
You can also buy Potassium Metabisulfite in powder form, usually sold to home winemakers in 4 ounce bottles or 1 pound bags. This chemical works well as a sanitizing agent because it is a bacterial inhibitor. Since there's no inert materials in this form (unlike campden tablets, which have some fillers added), you don't need to add a lot of crystals to make a great sanitizing solution.
METHOD: Dissolve 1 teaspoon of crystals in one gallon of water to make a solution comprised of 940 PPM SO2.*"

Regards, GF.

 

[remthewanderer]

The sufite solution should not be rinsed either. From Grapestompers:

"Campden Tablets
These little tablets (Potassium Metabisulfite is the active ingredient) work wonders; not only do they "clean" must prior to pitching yeast, but adding crushed campden tablets to water also makes a great sanitizing solution for winemaking equipment. Each campden tablet supplies about 67 mg / liter (PPM) per gallon at pH between 3.2 and 3.5. As it turns out, it's good to have a little free SO2 in your wine (between 40 - 60 PPM), so there's no need to rinse your equipment after sanitizing with this agent.
METHOD: In order to obtain a sanitizing solution of 940 PPM SO2, crush 14 campden tablets and dissolve into 1 gallon of water.*

Potassium Metabisulfite Powder
You can also buy Potassium Metabisulfite in powder form, usually sold to home winemakers in 4 ounce bottles or 1 pound bags. This chemical works well as a sanitizing agent because it is a bacterial inhibitor. Since there's no inert materials in this form (unlike campden tablets, which have some fillers added), you don't need to add a lot of crystals to make a great sanitizing solution.
METHOD: Dissolve 1 teaspoon of crystals in one gallon of water to make a solution comprised of 940 PPM SO2.*"

Regards, GF.

Thanks everyone! GF This quote is perfect.