Help me make a Apple Cinnamon clone

[ratinator]

I'll start by saying I have never made cider (I make all grain beer) and mead a few times. My local brewery make a very good apple cider that takes like an apple pie shooter (half apple sourpuss/half butter ripple + cinnamon). Their cider is 6%abv and has this description:
"A traditional style cider with strong notes of cinnamon, it has a pleasing dry rather than sweet finish"

So what I am thinking for ingredients:
-Apple juice (5 gals)
-cinnamon (probably start with a stick or two
-thinking about adding some brown sugar, dont know how much or how that works.
-have no idea what yeast to use (wanna hit 6%)

Was gonna boil a gal of the juice with the cinnamon and sugar and pour cooled in primary with the other 4. I have read about Campden tablets 1 per gal...can anyone with knowledge draw something up for me.

Thanks in advance

 

[RPh_Guy]

I would start with a base cider without the additions. This will help diagnose issues with off-flavors related to your juice, yeast, or process.

Everyone has a different favorite yeast.
Check this thread for ideas:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/cider-yeast-selection.637961/

I'd skip the brown sugar, or just add a touch of molasses if you want that flavor. It can quickly overpower the cider, so be conservative.

Add cinnamon sticks after fermentation completes, either directly, as a tea, or from a tincture/extract.
I really wouldn't boil the apple juice, this would drive away aromatics.

Ciders can't really be "cloned" because of differences in the apple juice. Manage your expectations

I would suggest sulfite at 20-35ppm free SO2 added after fermentation (preferably adjusted for pH). This is to help prevent oxidation. It may or may not be necessary depending on your process.
https://winemakermag.com/resource/1301-sulfite-calculator

Cheers

 

[Genuine]

Since I keg, I back sweeten with 3-4 cans of frozen apple juice concentrate. I find that 3 makes a semi dry cider, 4 cans makes sweet cider. I would so 2-3 and then either add in ground cinnamon or a stick after fermentation.

 

[Maylar]

1 crushed Campden tablet per gallon. Wait 24 hrs before pitching the yeast.
Add pectic enzyme if you have any, to help the cider clear.
No boiling.
No added sugar. Regular cider will be about 6% ABV without it. Fermented molasses tastes bitter and nasty.
3 cinnamon sticks for 5 gallons is usually right.

 

[RPh_Guy]

1 crushed Campden tablet per gallon. Wait 24 hrs before pitching the yeast.

Do you use unpasteurized juice?

 

[Maylar]

Do you use unpasteurized juice?

Yes. I meant to add that the Campden can be eliminated if your juice is pasteurized but I missed that. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[bmd2k1]

I really dig cinnamon in a variety of my ciders & find that 2 whole sticks per 1gal is my fav - always post fermentation. Everyone is different so some trial & try is in order to find Ur happy spot.

Cheers & Good luck [emoji111]

 

[Durandal]

I’ve been doing ciders for a couple years now, including a spiced cider similar to what you’re looking for. Here’s some tips to help avoid my mistakes!

You should be able to get into the 5-6% range with just the apple cider. Sugar additions will increase the ABV. Measure your OG and do the math (or use a calculator )

I prefer to let it ferment fully, then bottle like a normal beer. That leaves the cider as a super-dry champaigne flavor, however. If you want some sweetness, which will bring out a lot of the flavors, add some lactose on bottling. 1/2 lb to 1lb of lactose during bottling. Lactose, as you know, is not a fermentable sugar, and will remain in the flavor profile.

DON’T work with cider with yeast killers, or add yeast killers until you want the yeast killed. Again, I prefer the simpler method of just letting the yeast do it’s thing. Get cider from a local apple farm or somewhere that sells it raw. Pasteurize prior to fermentation unless you want a “local wild flavor”, which is totally a thing if you want to go that very interesting route.

Finally, DON’T add the cinnamon during boil! More specifically, don’t rely on flavor additions introduced before fermentation. It will get blown off during the fermentation process. When I’ve done this, it definitely adds something very subtle, but it’s not the cinnimon flavor I was looking for. Treat it like a dry-hop. I plan on tossing in a few cinnimon sticks after primary fermentation and giving 3-4 days before racking and bottling.

 

[ratinator]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. To clear some stuff, like I said I want to hit 6%abv, I will be kegging the cider so I could always backsweeten, but again the recipe I am going for is suppose to be dry. I am not sure if I am going to buy juice or cider yet and I will probably skip the sugar/molasses additionals I guess and just dry hop with like 3-4 cinnamon sticks. I know how homebrewing goes so I know it will be different, just want something similar. I am probably gonna start with wyeast 4766 or mangrove jacks m02 because that is what my hbs carries.

So 5 gals of juice, 5 tablets and add my yeast in primary, wait a month or till fermentation is done and then condition on cinnamon sticks in secondary for another month? If going to back sweeten add frozen apple juice to bottling buck and mix into keg. Anything I am missing?

 

[Durandal]

Sounds close.

To hit 6% on the nose, you’ll need to measure OG and add sugar/water to compensate.

I doubt we need more than a few days with the cinnamon. Treat it like a dry hop. I plan on going by taste.

CAREFUL with the back sweetening. You need to kill the yeast (don’t unless you’re kegging or going for a still cider) or use a non-fermentable sugar. Otherwise you’re making bombs.

 

[ratinator]

Ya I hear you on the OG, doesnt have to be perfect but close to the 6ish%, roger that on cinnamon...ill be kegging, might add a can to start. I have pectin enzyme im also gonna add in primary. What chemical do I need to kill yeast?

 

[Durandal]

I personally prefer not to kill the yeast, so someone else's input might be needed if you insist on adding a chemical. I prefer to let it ferment fully, then add a non-fermentable sugar like lactose. There's also a recent topic where someone used stevia. It's always good to work with the KISS principle rather than against it.

 

[ratinator]

I am gonna go ahead with 5.5 gallons of this stuff. As per Yooper going to put 5 capden tablets with the cider, 12hrs later 3tsp of pectin enzyme and 12hrs after that I will pitch some Mangrove Jacks M02. Probably gonna do 4 cinnamon sticks. I might backsweeten with a can of apple concentrate can't decide yet. Wish me luck!

 

[RPh_Guy]

You don't need the campden (sulfite) at the beginning since the juice is pasteurized.

Good luck

 

[ratinator]

You don't need the campden (sulfite) at the beginning since the juice is pasteurized.

Good luck

Lol thanks for the info, ill pass on them then[emoji106]

 

[Maylar]

Potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite (Campden) together will stabilize the cider before sweetening. They don't actually kill yeast, but the sorbate will prevent refermentation by preventing them from reproducing. This only works if you have fully fermented and have racked off the lees so there's minimal amount of yeast left. The typical procedure is to let the cider ferment down to 1.006 or so then rack to a clean carboy with minimal headspace. Then after the cider clears and drops out the last bit of yeast (a few weeks) you can rack to your keg, stabilize with the sorbate, and sweeten to taste.

 

[ratinator]

Potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite (Campden) together will stabilize the cider before sweetening. They don't actually kill yeast, but the sorbate will prevent refermentation by preventing them from reproducing. This only works if you have fully fermented and have racked off the lees so there's minimal amount of yeast left. The typical procedure is to let the cider ferment down to 1.006 or so then rack to a clean carboy with minimal headspace. Then after the cider clears and drops out the last bit of yeast (a few weeks) you can rack to your keg, stabilize with the sorbate, and sweeten to taste.

I am use to making wine kits and using the packets with those chemicals. Do I stir them in vigoriously like I would the wine or do I have to worry about oxidation like beer. Thanks again everyone for all the info

 

[Maylar]

I like to mix them with a cup or two of the cider in a small sanitized glass jar or Pyrex measuring cup then gently stir that into the must.

 

[canehdianman]

I am gonna go ahead with 5.5 gallons of this stuff. As per Yooper going to put 5 capden tablets with the cider, 12hrs later 3tsp of pectin enzyme and 12hrs after that I will pitch some Mangrove Jacks M02. Probably gonna do 4 cinnamon sticks. I might backsweeten with a can of apple concentrate can't decide yet. Wish me luck!View attachment 586748

Let me know how it goes. I've always been too cheap to buy that juice. I think it's $5 for that 3L container here in Calgary.

 

[ratinator]

Let me know how it goes. I've always been too cheap to buy that juice. I think it's $5 for that 3L container here in Calgary.

Ya its really the only thing I can find from the grocery store without investing alot of time in speciality shops. Be about 45$ to brew a batch which is on par with what my beer usually costs.

 

[ratinator]

Well I used the attached cider and used 5 cinnamon sticks with the mangrove yeast. It cleared up well but was pretty much tasteless so my intentions were to back sweeten with 4 cans of apple concentrate, but the stuff doesn't exist in Canada anymore! Could not source it anywhere local or online as it seems tree top is the only one and thats a states brand. Soo...i used apple grape concentrate instead and the cider actually turned out excellent. It does have a pinkish tint due to the grape but the favor mixed with the cinnamon meshed well. Seems to be a hit with everyone who tried it. Next time I go to the states I will pick up some tree top and try strickly apple

 

[ratinator]

Well I used the attached cider and used 5 cinnamon sticks with the mangrove yeast. It cleared up well but was pretty much tasteless so my intentions were to back sweeten with 4 cans of apple concentrate, but the stuff doesn't exist in Canada anymore! Could not source it anywhere local or online as it seems tree top is the only one and thats a states brand. Soo...i used apple grape concentrate instead and the cider actually turned out excellent. It does have a pinkish tint due to the grape but the favor mixed with the cinnamon meshed well. Seems to be a hit with everyone who tried it. Next time I go to the states I will pick up some tree top and try strickly apple

Heres a pic