Help me believe in my Belgian!

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Hey Beer Nerds!

My brewing has slowed of late as I have worked on my masters thesis, but I have been enjoying some of my previous batches very much. I move from Montana to Texas in late August, so I figure now would be a good time to brew one last Montana batch for my going away party.

I am thinking Belgian but have never used those goofy yeasts before. I want to use Wyeast 3864 Canadian Belgian but I don't have great temp control for the fermentation (I keep hearing all this stuff about gradually ramping up the temps on the fermentation - the chances of that going smoothly are pretty low) my house is about 60 degrees but I can drop a sleeping bag over the bucket or possibly buy a cheapo warming pad at wallgreens. Also my aeration setup is low-tech: me after three beers and a slotted spoon. The batch will be a La Fin Du Mond clone, O.G. 1.076.

So three questions:

1) Is the yeast a good idea? I'd especially appreciate feedback from folks having experience with 3864 strain, I need to know how well-behaved it is.
2) Can anyone suggest a different (well-behaved) strain for a Belgian Strong Golden Ale? I have read good things about the Wyeast 3787 strain but I don't know how appropriate to the style it is, I am looking for a spicy/dry/slightly tart finish.
3) What do you guys think about the schedule-- what are the chances this will be ready by mid-late August? Brew by end of may, bottle mid June, condition 3 weeks and age about 1.5 months would be the plan.

Thanks fellas!

 

[Parker36]

I don't see you being able to pull off a Belgian Golden Strong in this time frame. They really need a few months minimum to be up to snuff. Look into something lighter. As for the yeast and temps, when you get settled in down in Texas and want to brew it, definitely use a Belgian yeast (using anything else will take away any characteristics that make it Belgian) and doin't worry too much about the temps. If you start it at 68ish and let it raise the temperature on its own through the exothermy of the internal reactions, you will be ok.

 

[goplayoutside]

When I get to Texas there will be paychecks and free weekends and I am buildin' me a temperature-controlled insulated fermentation box.

Until then maybe I ought to scale down to a Blonde or a Wit. Any Suggestions?

 

[Malticulous]

I can drop a sleeping bag over the bucket or possibly buy a cheapo warming pad at wallgreens.

Sounds like a good plan, try both. Too bad that yeast is gone. 1388 is good too, just less tart. I'm doing a BGS and splitting with 1388 and 3864 next.

 

[Parker36]

Ya, a Blonde or a Wit would be perfect. Still get a little "Belgian-ness", will be done fairly quickly and are great in the summertime

 

[goplayoutside]

So I stepped things down and have a recipe now for a wit based on Papizian's "who's in the garden" (Hoegaarden Clone) and some comments and other recipes I've seen online. Right now I plan on using Wyeast 3464 Forbidden Fruit for the yeast but would consider substituting Wyeast 3944 Belgian Wit if anyone can suggest from experience that the 3944 will produce better beer or behave better. Thoughts, people?

The Recipe:

5 gal of beer, partial mash, late extract addition, 3 gal boil.
Estimated stats-- OG: 1.056 ; ABV: 5.58% ; Color 5.5 SRM ; IBUs: 15.6

15 min 1.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract (LATE ADDITION @ 15 MIN)
15 min 1.00 lb Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract (LATE ADDITION @ 15 MIN)
2.00 lb Honey (1.0 SRM) (60 min) Sugar (LATE ADDITION @ 15 MIN)
2.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain
1.50 lb Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain
0.50 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain
0.50 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain
60 min 0.75 oz Strisslespalt [4.00 %] (60 min) Hops
15 min 0.75 oz Strisslespalt [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops
15 min 0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
5 min 0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
5 min 0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
2 min 0.50 oz Strisslespalt [4.00 %] (2 min) Hops
1 Pkgs Forbidden Fruit (Wyeast Labs #3463) Yeast-Wheat

 

[Saccharomyces]

Looks good, only one suggestion.

IMO spices should be added at the end of the boil, not sooner, otherwise you will boil off the aroma of the spices. I chill with a big IC which drops the temp FAST so I dump in the spices at flameout and then wait two minutes before firing up the chiller. If your chilling method is slower (sink bath) I would toss them in after moving the pot to the sink.

The Forbidden Fruit yeast is a fine strain for a Wit. I like to ferment my Wits warm... 74-76*F. Plenty of nice Belgian character with just a hint of . Delicious!

 

[Bob]

Thoughts:

1. Spices or late hops. Choose one. If you use both, it's simply too confusing.
2. Either yeast will work fine.
3. Sub more wheat extract for the honey. I tried the whole honey/extra sugar thing in a Wit once, and was really quite disappointed with the result. The body was too thin.
4. Sub unmalted wheat (flaked wheat) for the Aromatic. If you get rid of the honey, you won't need the Aromatic anyway.
5. +1 to adding all spices at the end of the boil. Add all hops at the beginning, all spices at the end.
6. Speaking of which, don't over-hop. I'd use a full ounce of your Strisselspalt at the beginning of the boil. Something lots of brewers either never know or forget is that you get a lot of bitterness from the Bitter Orange Peel, should you choose to use it. You have. Strisselspalt is a wonderful variety for this use, BTW!

That's about it. Witbier is my absolute favorite style both to brew and to drink. I'm out, and need to brew more!

Bob

 

[goplayoutside]

Thanks for the advice folks, I've made some adjustments:

-Switched the spice mix to that shown on the wit recipe on NQ3X's three hounds site
-Removed the honey and put in 2 lbs more of wheat DME
-Changed the grain bill to include torrified wheat and more oats and no aromatic
-changed hops to 1 oz Strisselspalt at 30 min.

Here is the recipe as it stands now:

Mash:
0.25 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct
2.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain
1.25 lb Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain
0.75 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain
0.50 lb Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain
Extracts:
1.00 lb XLDME (Added at beginning of Boil)
3.00 lb Wheat DME (1 lb at beginning of boil, 2 lb as LATE ADDITION @ 15 min)
Hops:
30 min 1.00 oz Strisslespalt [4.00 %] (30 min) Hops
Spices:
0 min 0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 1.0 min) Misc
0 min 1.00 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 1.0 min) Misc
0 min 1.00 petals Anise, Star (Boil 1.0 min) Misc
0 min 5.00 gm Seeds of Paradise (Boil 1.0 min) Misc
Yeast:
1 Pkgs Forbidden Fruit (Wyeast Labs #3463) Yeast-Wheat

 

[Bob]

GAH! Is that the quantity I've listed for Paradise Seed? That's crazy!

2 grams, no more.

I gotta go change that...

Bob

 

[goplayoutside]

Good to know, Bob. I'll go ahead and knock that down...

 

[jkarp]

Sounds like you're already on the Wit path (which is great), but don't take all the "Belgians must age for months" claims as law. Yes, tripels and the like can be aged with good results, but not a single Trappist brewery lets theirs sit that long before sale. Tripels, properly brewed, can be excellent young too.

 

[Bob]

Good observation, jkarp. I like to drink my Wit as soon as it's carbonated; I find it superior when young, like Beaujolais.

Bob

 

[Malticulous]

Sounds like you're already on the Wit path (which is great), but don't take all the "Belgians must age for months" claims as law. Yes, tripels and the like can be aged with good results, but not a single Trappist brewery lets theirs sit that long before sale. Tripels, properly brewed, can be excellent young too.

How long is that? Most of them that I get with dates on them are over a year old. Do you think eight weeks is good for a BGS?

 

[DeathBrewer]

Belgian Pale Ale FTW...all the belgiany goodness without the wait.

EDIT: Wit is a good call, too. So I voted "brew something else" but still stick with belgian

 

[jkarp]

How long is that? Most of them that I get with dates on them are over a year old. Do you think eight weeks is good for a BGS?

Well, let's take Duvel - the beer BGS was named after. It has a 5 day primary ferment, 3 week below freezing secondary, 2 week refermentation at 75 deg, followed by a 6 week rest at 41 deg.

So, on the surface eight seems short, but I normally do my BGS following Duvel's process with shorter times - 1 week ferment, 2 week lager, 2 week referment, and 3 week rest. All my finished beers stay in a 40 deg storage fridge, so the rest effectively continues but I start sampling then.

 

[syd138]

I think it should be enough time.. I say go for it.

btw, if you can't find 3864, which happened to me, go with 1388 Belgian Strong

 

[Saccharomyces]

Good observation, jkarp. I like to drink my Wit as soon as it's carbonated; I find it superior when young, like Beaujolais.

I had a Wit nearly win best of show (got runner-up) that was judged 21 days after brewing. It was still flat in the bottles when I shipped it to the comp!

I'm tempted to try a 7 day Wit sometime... Transfer to a keg when the gravity is about 5-6 points from terminal gravity so it naturally carbonates, and then when gravity is stable for 2 days jumper to a serving keg to leave the remaining trub behind.

 

[jkarp]

I'm tempted to try a 7 day Wit sometime... Transfer to a keg when the gravity is about 5-6 points from terminal gravity so it naturally carbonates, and then when gravity is stable for 2 days jumper to a serving keg to leave the remaining trub behind.

DOITDOITDOIT!

I did up a batch of 10 day Wit a couple months ago to force-carb with my Tap a Draft. First bottle was amazing, as always, but the second languished in the storage fridge until last week. I've been drinking it, but also kicking myself for letting it sit so long. It isn't half the beer it was fresh.

 

[Bob]

Got the T-shirt here, too. I concur:

DO IT!

I once, for a Wars of the Roses (15th century) reenactment, brewed a 1.040-ish Wit on the Sunday afternoon before the event. Racked to keg on Thursday evening, not high krauesen but still quite active. Sat in 65F ambient temperature until Friday evening.

We drank the foamy, yummy stuff breakfast, lunch and dinner until the keg kicked Saturday night (I did save a pitcher to serve with Sunday's breakfast).

It was utterly AWESOME, the hit of the event, especially amongst the other brewers present. They were amazed that it worked!

Cheers,

Bob

 

[Malticulous]

Well, let's take Duvel - the beer BGS was named after. It has a 5 day primary ferment, 3 week below freezing secondary, 2 week refermentation at 75 deg, followed by a 6 week rest at 41 deg.

So, on the surface eight seems short, but I normally do my BGS following Duvel's process with shorter times - 1 week ferment, 2 week lager, 2 week referment, and 3 week rest. All my finished beers stay in a 40 deg storage fridge, so the rest effectively continues but I start sampling then.

Thanks. Could I ask where you found that information?

 

[jkarp]

Thanks. Could I ask where you found that information?

Brew Like a Monk

 

[Malticulous]

I was thinking that, thanks again.

 

[weirdboy]

I would do a 90 minute boil on that wit recipe, due to the Pilsen content.

 

[goplayoutside]

OP chiming in here. The batch is fermented out and ready to bottle. I completely blew the mash part due to a miscommunication somewhere between me, my new thermometer (has the F and C scales on opposite sides from my old thermometer), and some excellent Heffeweizen I brewed this winter. Solution: Added a pile of wheat DME just before the end of the boil, cooled it down and pitched. I have no farkin' clue what is gonna come out of that bucket.

Beer happens.