Help! (Inactive fermentation vs. poorly sealed fermentation bucket/lid)

[Justin Harmon]

I've got an urgent brewing situation here. Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much!

My main issue is this:

My airlock is not bubbling whatsoever after 24 hours since pitching my yeast and the ambient temp is about 74-77.

I realize that it is very possible that there is a tiny air leak between the plastic bucket and lid (it is a new bucket and lid that I have never previously used to brew) which would mean I have no idea if fermentation is actually occurring short of taking a hydrometer reading.

My main questions are:

1. How long should I wait before taking a hydrometer reading?

2. Should I pitch new yeast? If so, then when?

3. Would pitching new yeast actually hurt anything (If my original yeast is actually ok and my fermenter isn’t bubbling because of the poor seal of the bucket or a very very slow activation)?


Background: (In case anyone is further interested)

I finished brewing a red IPA yesterday and pitched the liquid yeast around 8pm.

I had “activated” the yeast by smacking the nutrient packet inside roughly an hour and a half before pitching it. The yeast temperature was up to about room temperature and the packet did seem to expand slightly after activation and sitting outside of the refrigerator. There were two mini nutrient compartments within the yeast pouch, one of which (to my frustration) was somehow NOT broken. I decided to pitch it anyway and hope for the best.

I’m afraid the yeast may have possibly gone bad or became inactive, (or maybe the 1 of 2 nutrient packets was actually the ONLY nutrient packet in the yeast?). The temperature of the wort before I added water up to the 5-gallon mark was 66 and then came up to about 70 afterwards. The yeast packet said that it was BEST to be used 6 months after packaging and it was in fact a week past six months.

 

[IslandLizard]

Hi, welcome to HBT!

Never judge lack of fermentation by the inactivity of the airlock.
As you said yourself already, bucket lids are notorious for leaking.

Here's what you do first:
Remove the airlock and peek down that hole. Use a flashlight through the side if you can't see anything. If you see a foamy layer ("krausen") on top of your beer, it's fermenting. Stick the airlock back in.
Or you could lift the lid a bit and look underneath. Sanitize the rim and lid very well before opening.

24 hours of lag time is fairly normal, especially with dry yeast sprinkled on top or liquid yeast pitched without making a yeast starter first.
Now your yeast being 6 months old is not helping your case. With liquid yeast, you should always make a yeast starter, a few days before you brew.

For liquid yeast, making a yeast starter is definitely recommended for these reasons:

1. Proves viability (before you even brew): she's alive!
2. Ramps up cell count, this is important, especially with older yeast packs. The number of viable cells decreases from the moment they're packaged. 10-20% decrease per month is typical. There are some exceptions.
3. Increases the overall vitality of your whole yeast culture.
4. Allows you to overbuild and save some yeast out for a next batch. And again, and again, etc.

What was your recipe's OG?
AFAIK, WYeast is the only yeast brand that uses a smack pack. Which yeast # is it?
Do you have a backup at hand, like a dry yeast?

If there's no foamy krausen by tomorrow morning/noon (36-48 hours after pitching), you need to pitch new yeast, ASAP.

74-77F is pretty warm. As soon as she shows signs of life, you need to bring the temps down a bit, 64-68F is a good average for ale yeasts, but it depends on the yeast used.

 

[RM-MN]

It takes a while for the yeast to propagate enough cells to begin to produce the CO2. Then it takes a while more for enough pressure to build up to make the airlock bubble. Any tiny leak around the lid and the CO2 will escape there instead of through the airlock and the airlock may never bubble. Even in a well sealed bucket I don't expect the airlock to bubble for 30 to 36 hours. You can open the edge of the lid and peek inside to see if there is any bubbling but doing that will delay any possible bubbling for a few more hours.

With the ambient temperature that high, unless you cool the beer you will get some unwanted flavors. Set the bucket in a tub of cool water, adding ice or water bottles that have been frozen. Keeping the beer cool during the first 5 to 7 days has made the biggest improvement in my beer flavors.

 

[Justin Harmon]

Thanks so much for the advice gents.

So I popped off the airlock and peeked in to see if the krausen layer was forming and unfortunately its looks very clear on top. It looks like my suspicion about the yeast's lack of viability was correct.

My OG was about 1.060 which was a bit under the target of 1.066.

You are correct, the yeast was Wyeast 1272 American Ale Yeast II. I do not have any backups in my possession but I am picking some up later today. I ordered a package of Safale US-05 Dry Ale Yeast and as soon as I can pick it up I will pitch it.

Once fermentation is under way I am going to take it to the in laws house which has a basement with much cooler temps.

Thanks again for taking the time to give me the great advice! You guys are great.

I will let you know how it turns out.

Cheers,
-Justin

 

[RM-MN]

Check the beer again before you pitch more yeast. Sometimes it can take up to 48 hours or more for it to get going.

 

[IslandLizard]

Check the beer again before you pitch more yeast. Sometimes it can take up to 48 hours or more for it to get going.

Yeah, good point.

In my early brewing weeks, literally, my 3rd brew, I tried to brew my first Lager, a "Pilsner Urquell" clone. That will please the wife, I thought, she loves that stuff.

1. I brewed the extract recipe from Clone Brews to a T. Yeah, that's a funny notion in itself.
2. Pitched a vial of White Labs Budejovice Pilsner Yeast (WLP801) from my LHBS.
3. I wasn't aware I had to make a starter first, I hadn't read the beginning of the book, and on the recipe page there was no mention of pitching a viable yeast starter. Who would have known?
4. At 54F it did nothing for 2 days.
5. Getting a little worried, I warmed it up to mid 60's.
6. It took another 2 days to get a mere sign of foam/krausen.
7. I'd just let it go in the low 60s: don't change a winning team!

I started to learn a few things about brewing:

1. Don't take for granted what's printed on the yeast label.
2. Don't accept blindly what the LHBS guy rounds up for you.
3. Always make good size starters with liquid yeast.
4. Lagers are very difficult to brew.
5. I ended up with some sort of Steam Beer, drinkable, but nothing I had in mind.
6. Wife is very, very supportive with my homebrew endeavors. And amazingly understanding.
7. I didn't know **** about brewing...

 

[IslandLizard]

My OG was about 1.060 which was a bit under the target of 1.066.

You are correct, the yeast was Wyeast 1272 American Ale Yeast II.

WY1272 is a nice yeast for IPAs, sadly it wasn't meant to be this time.

Stick to dry yeast for a few batches, it makes brew life a lot easier.

 

[Justin Harmon]

Thanks again guys. (What was LHBS by the way..?)

 

[IslandLizard]

My OG was about 1.060 which was a bit under the target of 1.066.
I do not have any backups in my possession but I am picking some up later today. I ordered a package of Safale US-05 Dry Ale Yeast and as soon as I can pick it up I will pitch it.

With that 1.060 gravity, 1 pack of US-05 will be fine.

First when pitching the new yeast, keep excellent sanitation! You don't want the beer to get infected!
The common instruction is to just sprinkle the yeast on the top of the beer and close her up.
Time is of the essence to give your beer a quick lift off, given she will have been at 70-74 for 2 days already.

To reduce lag time, I'm teetering about advising you to make a quick starter with the pack of dry yeast.
For that you'd need about half a cup of DME and a quart mason jar or a 1 liter water bottle with a well fitting lid. Or even better, half a gallon or a gallon jug with a tight fitting lid or stopper.

Maybe another brewer can chime in on that idea...

@RM-MN, what do you think?

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks again guys. (What was LHBS by the way..?)

Local HomeBrew Store

 

[Justin Harmon]

OK so I have my dry yeast.

I saw your recommendation about doing a starter but I have absolutely no DME left and my LHBS is requires 2 days lead time for curbside pickup (thanks to the Covid pandemic).

So.. are there any other types of sugar for a starter? I googled using table sugar and I saw that was a dead end. Can I just pitch it dry at the current temp and be ok? Also should I try to shake the fermentor to aerate it again?

 

[McKnuckle]

You don't need a starter for your packet of dry yeast. The suggestion arose because the wort has been sitting around at a warm temp for about 44 hours now, if my math is correct. A starter takes time, additional sanitation measures, plus you lack the ingredients.

I would opt to sprinkle the yeast in directly NOW without further delay. I would also not do anything to aerate or otherwise further expose the wort. Open, sprinkle, close - and wait.

 

[Justin Harmon]

Thanks so much! I've been panicking a lot over this. haha I think I'm gonna just go for it now.

 

[IslandLizard]

You don't need a starter for your packet of dry yeast. The suggestion arose because the wort has been sitting around at a warm temp for about 44 hours now, if my math is correct. A starter takes time, additional sanitation measures, plus you lack the ingredients.

I would opt to sprinkle the yeast in directly NOW without further delay. I would also not do anything to aerate or otherwise further expose the wort. Open, sprinkle, close - and wait.

I agree, in lieu of the required ingredients, this ^ is the best strategy!

Sanitize, Open, sprinkle, close - and wait.

BTW, a (quick) shaken-not-stirred, dry yeast starter only takes 1-4 hours, decreasing lag time vs. sprinkling. But it takes extra dexterity and sanitation requirements.

 

[McKnuckle]

Fair enough point from @IslandLizard . Hopefully, we're talking a few hours difference between the various techniques, which should not be significant in any way at this point. Just keep the fermenter closed!

Most of the time, it's quite difficult to stop yeast from doing what it is programmed by nature to do. The stuff you pitched initially would have probably gotten going, but with a longer lag time than you're comfortable with at this stage of brewing.

In the future, if you use liquid yeast, follow the guidance here about making a starter in most situations. I often use dry yeast because of the extra planning involved with starters. But I also harvest selected yeast and store it for future use, which is another technique for you to read about, and often allows direct pitching without planning ahead.

Good luck with your brew.

 

[Justin Harmon]

UPDATE:

Hey guys. Great news. The secondary dry yeast did the trick and got my fermentation started as of Saturday morning (so about 12 hours after pitching). That means fermentation was in progress at or slightly before the 60 hour mark after brewing. Do you think that will hurt anything? Im not gonna be too concerned about some less than ideal flavors as long as I don't have to end up dumping the whole thing.

As it turns out my air lock and bucket/lid seal is working beautifully. Its bubbling nicely. Its now in a cooler basement climate to boot. Thanks again for your advice! When should I mess with another hydrometer reading? I'm thinking of just waiting the prescribed 2 weeks at which point the recipe calls for dry hopping for another week and then sampling/bottling. I appreciate all of your wisdom and insight!

 

[McKnuckle]

I'm glad the yeast worked out.

Unless you are impatient, and it sounds like you're not (great!), then you don't have to take another gravity reading until the end when it's sure to be done. Feel free to wait the 2 weeks and take a final gravity sample when you open the fermenter to add the dry hops.