Hello friends, need help please with forced carbonating soda! Ty ty ty!

[biscottij1]

I am very new to home brewing, and I am only interested in making non alcoholic beverages. I am mostly concerned with the amount of carbonation. Because of my lack of experience in both tasting and making home brewed beverages I believe my expectations could be off. Is it possible to make a really bubbly beverage? I am talking, is it possible to make coca-cola out of the can level of bubbles with a home brewed soda?

I made about 5 gallons of ginger beer and used champagne yeast to carbonate the soda. I let the soda carbonate in bottles. It was decently carbonated. It was so bubbly, one bottle exploded (super exciting my first explosion!). I was prepared for such an event so the damage/mess was minimal. I then drank the rest, and it was delicious, but I felt like it did not stay bubbly even long enough for me to finish one glass. It got flat within minutes, maybe less.

So, because I was disappointed with the level of bubbliness through yeast, I decided to go out and buy a forced carbonating system from my local brew shop (keg, hoses, regulator, and c02 tank). I have read and read and read sooo much! I have watched home made forced carbonating youtube video after youtube video, and I still am finding that it is impossible to replicate the amount of bubbles that are in commercially produced soda.

Even now as I speak my soda is sitting in my cold garage.. and I am just praying it gets bubbly. It is day 2 that it has been sitting under 30lbs of pressure for 48 hours. I have tested it each day. I tap it out at 30lbs of pressure and it has a nice head of foam, but not too much. but soon as the head dissipates I find that the beverage is still not as carbonated as the commercially carbonated beverages (which is such a shame because home made stuff tastes a million times better!).

Is it possible to make something at home as bubbly as something commercially produced?
Do I need the soda to sit under 30lbs of pressure for longer than 2 days?
should I let it sit under a higher or lower pressure?
Should I lower the pressure to something like 10lbs when I am tapping it?
It is in my garage in a very cold dark closet (50F give or take).

I hope this is enough information for one of you experts to diagnosis my problem... I just want to drink a glass of home made soda and not have it go flat before I finish it. This whole journey over the last 3 months has been very very discouraging and I am starting to regret starting this adventure. Please help!

Thank you in advance for your time, it is very much so appreciated.

Very respectfully
JB

 

[Homercidal]

30 lbs is approximately appropriate for a commercial soda. How long are your tap lines? What diameter?

When serving you *should* pour at the same pressure as the keg is carbonated. You will probably need to use much longer lines than for beer, because it's more highly carbonated.

Small diameter lines, and longer lines, create more resistance, and less pressure drop than larger diameter, shorter lines. So the beer(soda) doesn't foam up as much. That means more carbonation in the soda and less foam.

Now, the second thing is that even at 30 lbs, it will take more than 2 days to fully carbonate. Wait about a week and check again. 2 days at 30 lbs is just about enough to get beer carbonated to it's proper level. Soda will take a bit more to get to it's carbonation level.

 

[biscottij1]

30 lbs is approximately appropriate for a commercial soda. How long are your tap lines? What diameter?

When serving you *should* pour at the same pressure as the keg is carbonated. You will probably need to use much longer lines than for beer, because it's more highly carbonated.

Small diameter lines, and longer lines, create more resistance, and less pressure drop than larger diameter, shorter lines. So the beer(soda) doesn't foam up as much. That means more carbonation in the soda and less foam.

Now, the second thing is that even at 30 lbs, it will take more than 2 days to fully carbonate. Wait about a week and check again. 2 days at 30 lbs is just about enough to get beer carbonated to it's proper level. Soda will take a bit more to get to it's carbonation level.

Thank you for your time and great response. I will report back here in 5 days.

V/R

 

[JoshuaW]

So at 50F, you may not really be carbonating it as hard as you think. Yes, usually you would force carb at 30 psi, but that is also assuming it is cold, so it can absorb a higher volume of CO2.

In your case, for super fizzy soda, you would probably want to aim for 4 volumes of CO2, maybe even higher, like 4.5. Four volumes isnt even possible at 30psi at 50F. Take a look at the chart below, if you are targeting the volume at the same temperature, it will take about 10 days to carbonate. If you are trying to speed it along, you need to be at a higher pressure for 2-3 days, then vent and adjust down.

http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

 

[Gavin C]

I am only interested in making non alcoholic beverages. Is it possible to make a really bubbly beverage?

I .. used champagne yeast to carbonate the soda. I let the soda carbonate in bottles.

Yeast eat sugar and produce CO2 (what you want) and ethyl alcohol (which you don't want). if you want a very fizzy beverage and no alcohol and no exploding bottles you need to force carbonate the beverage using CO2 at pressure. (A keg setup)

Temperature of the liquid and the psi of the CO2 in the vessel will dictate how much CO2 is absorbed by the liquid (how fizzy it is). The process can take hours to weeks depending on your technique.

 

[biscottij1]

Thank you all very much for your time and polite inteligent responses. All of your advice has been noted and I am going to adjust accordingly. I will keep you all posted if for nothing else than curiousity .

V/R
JB

 

[daft]

but I felt like it did not stay bubbly even long enough for me to finish one glass. It got flat within minutes, maybe less.

OK, here goes some observations based on my eccentric shortcut ways of making soda. I can powerfully carbonate in seconds. Or I can carbonate with zero pressure by means of what I call secondary or rolling carbonation.

With a sodastream machine, I stick the injector into a half liter bottle of prechilled water and let it sit 20 seconds or so while I uncap various syrup combos. A few seconds of gas and it's ready for syrup which if not a foam bomb can be capped and will give lasting pours of nonstop bubbles. A foam bomb seems to be caused by a syrup with too much particulate or whatever seeds excessive and depletionary bubbles. The default 1 ltr sodastream bottle won't maintain bubbles; you have to track down their half ltr ones. They do not advise the chill and wait a bit approach.

Alternately with a plastic jug of pasteurized juice I throw shovelfuls bread yeast in and recap... well, enough yeast to ensure bulging hi-carb bottle in about 7 hours (in my always sweltering kitchen anyways). At this speed there will be near zero alcohol and near zero bread taste. No chi-chi wine yeasts are needed, rather a sledge hammer of discount bread yeast which can overpower off tasting wild yeasts that snuck in when you briefly uncapped. So far this gives a delicious but quickly dissipating carbed drink.

The next thing is to fridge the bottle for about 7 hours before any initial uncapping. This drives the carb more into the delicious liquid, but maybe not enough for long lasting bubbles. Drink some of the bottle and squeeze out all the (bad external yeasty) air and re-chill. Then the later openings will have sort of a rolling carbonation that I have never heard anyone describe. The bottle may still be partly shrunken with NO pressure, yet there is a lively carbonation that just cascades off your tongue... maybe our tastebuds actually precipitate them. This is so deliriously pleasurable that you will quickly finish the jug before it gets detectable alcohol after a couple days in fridge.

 

[MrFoodScientist]

You're kind of looking at two different things.
How carbonated something is, does not necessarily affect how long the beverage will hold carbonation after being uncapped, though the factors that influence those things are the same.

The 3 best ways to hold carbonation are lower solute levels, colder temperatures, and minimal agitation after opening.

50°F is a bit warm for carbonation and at 30psi, you're theoretically getting about 3.5 volumes of carbonation. Commercial soda is 3-4 volumes, so your psi is ok, but you're likely losing some of that carbonation coming out of the tap at 30psi. You'd theoretically get the same level of carbonation (3.5 vol) at 19psi if you were at 35°F, but you'd likely retain more because your serving will be less turbulent. It will also retain more in the glass because it's colder and will take longer to warm to room temperature.

To absolutely get the best carbonation out of your setup, keep it colder, see if you can reduce the sugar and other particulates (filter any juices you're adding), and then bottle it with this method and I think you'll be much less disappointed in your setup.

Based on how you said it was carbonated enough to burst a bottle, yet it went flat within minutes, I'm guessing it was really warm when you poured it. For heaven's sake, stop drinking warm soda. Even if you pour it over ice, you're going to lose more carbonation than if you're pouring cold soda.

 

[jonnybleu]

Ok, my two cents after I went nuts for this stuff a while back, I'm mostly into ginger ale, but also apple cider, and getting into cream soda.

I prefer the champagne yeast method you described first for ginger ale, I get better carbonation, better taste (compared to force-carbonated home made ginger syrup in water) and not so syrupy texture. Here's my advice:

Yeast Method:
5-gallons is a lot. Not sure what your process was for that, but here's how I do it.
- Roughly 1/10 ration of ginger simple syrup to warm water. (12oz bottle, maybe 1.5oz syrup)
- Drop in 20-30 grains of that Red Star Champagne Yeast
- Cap (use thick bottles! flip top bottles are great) and let it sit in a warm place for 72 hours (NO MORE or else BOOM).
- CHILL (comon... don't drink it warm, also it'll hit the ceiling warm...)
- Pop that cap for a satisfying champagne style pop and some cool chill fog flowing out of the top (and should have no overflow) I wonder if I can post a video...
- VERY carbonated and carbonation should last as long as you take to drink it. Mine bites, it's got nice fine bubbles, but a lot.

Forced carbonation method:
I just used 16oz - 2L plastic bottles depending on how much I wanted to make, get a "Carbonator" bottle cap off Amazon to plug right into the plastic bottles.
- Same recipe but without the yeast.
- CHILL ALL INGREDIENTS to as close to freezing as you can.
- Set your PSI, shake until the dissolving stops. Careful not to go too high, but I used thicker bottles and got upwards of 50PSI without any explosions ever, but be careful, especially if reusing.

With the forced carbonation method you want to be a bit more careful when you open it, the syrup that hasn't been eaten by the yeast results in more foam and potential overflow. Just let it hiss a bit when you open.

Does that helps?

 

[jonnybleu]

Here ya go. HsssssPOP! =)

View attachment bottle.mov

 

[rodolfof1]

I am very new to home brewing, and I am only interested in making non alcoholic beverages. I am mostly concerned with the amount of carbonation. Because of my lack of experience in both tasting and making home brewed beverages I believe my expectations could be off. Is it possible to make a really bubbly beverage? I am talking, is it possible to make coca-cola out of the can level of bubbles with a home brewed soda?

I made about 5 gallons of ginger beer and used champagne yeast to carbonate the soda. I let the soda carbonate in bottles. It was decently carbonated. It was so bubbly, one bottle exploded (super exciting my first explosion!). I was prepared for such an event so the damage/mess was minimal. I then drank the rest, and it was delicious, but I felt like it did not stay bubbly even long enough for me to finish one glass. It got flat within minutes, maybe less.

So, because I was disappointed with the level of bubbliness through yeast, I decided to go out and buy a forced carbonating system from my local brew shop (keg, hoses, regulator, and c02 tank). I have read and read and read sooo much! I have watched home made forced carbonating youtube video after youtube video, and I still am finding that it is impossible to replicate the amount of bubbles that are in commercially produced soda.

Even now as I speak my soda is sitting in my cold garage.. and I am just praying it gets bubbly. It is day 2 that it has been sitting under 30lbs of pressure for 48 hours. I have tested it each day. I tap it out at 30lbs of pressure and it has a nice head of foam, but not too much. but soon as the head dissipates I find that the beverage is still not as carbonated as the commercially carbonated beverages (which is such a shame because home made stuff tastes a million times better!).

Is it possible to make something at home as bubbly as something commercially produced?
Do I need the soda to sit under 30lbs of pressure for longer than 2 days?
should I let it sit under a higher or lower pressure?
Should I lower the pressure to something like 10lbs when I am tapping it?
It is in my garage in a very cold dark closet (50F give or take).

I hope this is enough information for one of you experts to diagnosis my problem... I just want to drink a glass of home made soda and not have it go flat before I finish it. This whole journey over the last 3 months has been very very discouraging and I am starting to regret starting this adventure. Please help!

Thank you in advance for your time, it is very much so appreciated.

Very respectfully
JB

Did you find an answer to keep the soda bubbly?

 

[passedpawn]

Carbonation 30 - 40psi.

I've left root beer sitting for weeks and it didn't carbonate. Not sure why. 35F, 35psi, you'd think physics would do it's thing.

If you put it at pressure and shake the hell out of the keg, it will carbonate almost instantly. At least, it will fine the next day. I like to lay the keg on it's side, with the gas input at the top, and roll it back and forth. You should hear the tank/regulator groan as gas moves into your soda. And yes, it will be VERY carbonated. On crushed ice, you'll struggle to get a good pour. I'm guessing a flow valve on your tap would help a lot by slowing down the pour.

 

[rodolfof1]

Carbonation 30 - 40psi.

I've left root beer sitting for weeks and it didn't carbonate. Not sure why. 35F, 35psi, you'd think physics would do it's thing.

If you put it at pressure and shake the hell out of the keg, it will carbonate almost instantly. At least, it will fine the next day. I like to lay the keg on it's side, with the gas input at the top, and roll it back and forth. You should hear the tank/regulator groan as gas moves into your soda. And yes, it will be VERY carbonated. On crushed ice, you'll struggle to get a good pour. I'm guessing a flow valve on your tap would help a lot by slowing down the pour.

Have you ever tried carbonating a mix of 80% pure juice and 20% water? or something close to it?

 

[passedpawn]

Have you ever tried carbonating a mix of 80% pure juice and 20% water? or something close to it?

No, just beer and soda. What kind of "juice"?

Juice of anything should be mostly water. It might be good to know the specific gravity of the juice. I don't think the gravity can affect the final carbonation (partial pressure laws - Dalton's), but I think higher gravity solutions will slow down the carbonation (Graham's Law of Diffusion).

 

[rodolfof1]

No, just beer and soda. What kind of "juice"?

Juice of anything should be mostly water. It might be good to know the specific gravity of the juice. I don't think the gravity can affect the final carbonation (partial pressure laws - Dalton's), but I think higher gravity solutions will slow down the carbonation (Graham's Law of Diffusion).

I mean for example apple juice ultrafiltered and pasteurized, pure and integral, no water add. Make a "real" sparkling juice.

 

[passedpawn]

I mean for example apple juice ultrafiltered and pasteurized, pure and integral, no water add. Make a "real" sparkling juice.

I think you can carbonate anything with gas. I'm guessing that the size of the bubbles, and maybe the "percieved" carbonation changes with the density of the stuff you're carbonating.

 

[jmcquesten]

I am very new to home brewing, and I am only interested in making non alcoholic beverages. I am mostly concerned with the amount of carbonation. Because of my lack of experience in both tasting and making home brewed beverages I believe my expectations could be off. Is it possible to make a really bubbly beverage? I am talking, is it possible to make coca-cola out of the can level of bubbles with a home brewed soda?

I made about 5 gallons of ginger beer and used champagne yeast to carbonate the soda. I let the soda carbonate in bottles. It was decently carbonated. It was so bubbly, one bottle exploded (super exciting my first explosion!). I was prepared for such an event so the damage/mess was minimal. I then drank the rest, and it was delicious, but I felt like it did not stay bubbly even long enough for me to finish one glass. It got flat within minutes, maybe less.

So, because I was disappointed with the level of bubbliness through yeast, I decided to go out and buy a forced carbonating system from my local brew shop (keg, hoses, regulator, and c02 tank). I have read and read and read sooo much! I have watched home made forced carbonating youtube video after youtube video, and I still am finding that it is impossible to replicate the amount of bubbles that are in commercially produced soda.

Even now as I speak my soda is sitting in my cold garage.. and I am just praying it gets bubbly. It is day 2 that it has been sitting under 30lbs of pressure for 48 hours. I have tested it each day. I tap it out at 30lbs of pressure and it has a nice head of foam, but not too much. but soon as the head dissipates I find that the beverage is still not as carbonated as the commercially carbonated beverages (which is such a shame because home made stuff tastes a million times better!).

Is it possible to make something at home as bubbly as something commercially produced?
Do I need the soda to sit under 30lbs of pressure for longer than 2 days?
should I let it sit under a higher or lower pressure?
Should I lower the pressure to something like 10lbs when I am tapping it?
It is in my garage in a very cold dark closet (50F give or take).

I hope this is enough information for one of you experts to diagnosis my problem... I just want to drink a glass of home made soda and not have it go flat before I finish it. This whole journey over the last 3 months has been very very discouraging and I am starting to regret starting this adventure. Please help!

Thank you in advance for your time, it is very much so appreciated.

Very respectfully
JB

Yes, it's possible. I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but when I made ginger beer (non alcoholic soda), I ended up having to us like 30 ft of beer line to compensate for the high pressure. Even that was barely enough. Probably could have used 35 - 40 ft, but at some point, it's just too much tubing and not worth it.

It will probably take a week or more to carbonate. Also, the serving pressure needs to stay constant or you'll just keep chasing your desired carb level. I think I served mine at around 25 - 30 psi.

That ginger beer came out great and everyone liked it.

 

[Yooper]

When my kids were teenagers, we carbonated all sorts of stuff. Soda, definitely, but also apple juice, lemonade, water, and more.

One hint- carbonated milk is as gross as it sounds.

 

[rodolfof1]

When my kids were teenagers, we carbonated all sorts of stuff. Soda, definitely, but also apple juice, lemonade, water, and more.

One hint- carbonated milk is as gross as it sounds.

Could you tell me a little bit about your carbonation process? Pressure, carbonating days, especially for apple juice.

 

[Yooper]

Could you tell me a little bit about your carbonation process? Pressure, carbonating days, especially for apple juice.

Put it in the kegerator at 30 psi. Serve with 30' of line. It was great.

I don't remember how long it took to fully carb up, though.

 

[fred588]

I make carbonated water and pre-flavored things in 1 liter batches. For bottles I use 1 liter bottles that originally were used for soft drinks. I have used the same set of a half dozen bottles for two years (about 1 bottle per day) and have never had a bottle burst or break. Prior to carbonization I put the bottle, with water, into the freezer until ice is beginning to form inside.

The carbonization apparatus I use is a 10 pound CO2 cylinder with what I believe would be called a two-stage regulator. It has a pressure gauge and a adjustment knob. I have it set such that the pressure going to the bottle is never higher than 30 PSI (1 atmosphere). I connect the hose from the regulator to the bottle of water with a simple hose and a cap purchased from a home brew outfit.

When I attach the bottle to the cap, I squeeze the bottle so as to remove all the visible air. I then invert the bottle and turn on the gas. I have to vigorously shake the bottle to keep gas flowing it. When the gas flow begin to diminish, I shut of the main valve of the CO2 take. I then continue to shake the bottle and watch the pressure gauge fall. If it falls below about 24 pounds I know I shut off the tank too soon and briefly turn it on for a moment. When the bubbles stop entering the bottle and thre pressure gauge reads at least 24 pounds, I am done.

I have read reports of bottles exploding when people used various machines, including home made set-up like mine. I believe just about every case has been due to trying to speed up the process by using too high a gauge pressure. Also, any incidents involving the machines that use miniature, single-use CO2 cylinders are probably due to a similar cause, as those cylinders release their gas essentially all at once.