Hef Pale Ale Critique Help

[BrewByBerg]

Hey guys, I've made a post earlier on this and just wanted to get your final input on this.

"One of my favorite breweries makes a tropical pale ale. I finally found out from one of the workers that they use a German hef yeast and the grain bill of their Belgian golden ale. And is dry hopped which is why they call it a pale ale."

They use hallertauer and citra hops. Here is the hop schedule so far

.4oz hallertauer @ 60
.75oz citra @10
.25 oz hallertauer @10
.5oz hallertauer @ 5
1oz citra @5
1.5oz citra @ 0
Using wlp300 hef yeast.

I've never used hallertauer before so I'm not sure how strong it is? Also is this too hoppy while using a hef yeast? This beer has a very low bitterness but tons of flavor and aroma at the brewery.

Any help would be awesome. Thanks

 

[slarkin712]

I've never heard of anything like this, but it's interesting to me. Hallertauer is a lighter hop, with mild spice, earthy, and floral qualities and is low in alpha acid. It is the standard hop used in a german hefe. I would think that the aroma and flavor from the citra would overwhelm the hallertauer. You'll get cloves, banana, and bubble gum from the german hefe yeast. That could play nicely with the flavors from the citra. Where did you get the hop schedule? I wish I could give you some advice. I say go for it and see how it turns out. Tweak the recipe and brew again.

 

[RonPopeil]

i agree with slarkin, you're in new territory here. creative brewer. i'm thinking this would taste like juicy fruit gum.

 

[BrewByBerg]

I've never heard of anything like this, but it's interesting to me. Hallertauer is a lighter hop, with mild spice, earthy, and floral qualities and is low in alpha acid. It is the standard hop used in a german hefe. I would think that the aroma and flavor from the citra would overwhelm the hallertauer. You'll get cloves, banana, and bubble gum from the german hefe yeast. That could play nicely with the flavors from the citra. Where did you get the hop schedule? I wish I could give you some advice. I say go for it and see how it turns out. Tweak the recipe and brew again.

I made up the hop schedule. Figured that late additions will have the most flavor and aroma, considering it smells amazing at the brewery. It does smell and taste of a little spice. I have 3oz of hallertauer, should I use it all?

 

[RonPopeil]

it's going to be tricky using citra and keeping ibu's down for this style. you could try doing 4 .25oz additions between 20 and 10 minutes to mimic a hopback. that would spread your hops through the flavor/aroma wheelhouse while saving a few ibu points. i would add hallertauer to the citra and mix them well. i would think your ratio would be 2:1 to 2.5:1 citra to hallertauer if you're calling it a pale ale. i wouldn't think they'd use a noble hop in large quantities. figure what a basic blonde would use for flavoring in hallertauer then add 2x that amount in citra.

 

[slarkin712]

I think that you are on the right track with your original hop schedule. Use a small amount of hallertauer for your bittering addition at 60 minutes. Maybe to get ~10 IBU. Then I would probably just add all of the rest of the hops you're going to use at flame out and do a 20 minute hop stand. I don't have an IBU calculator in front of me, but I'd say that would get you between 30-40 IBUs, which is good for a pale ale, and you would get a huge amount of flavor and aroma. Have a look at "The Electric Brewery Pale Ale" recipe for insight on this technique. I believe he made a pale ale with nothing but a bittering addition and flame out hops. You might also consider a small dry hop addition.

 

[Quaker]

I just made a wheat beer with dominant Summer and Galaxy hops, but used Wyeast's American Wheat yeast strain (tagged it as an Aussie Wheat). My schedule was 1/3 of my IBUs as bittering addition, then walloped it at 5 minutes and 0 minutes hops with a 10 minute whirlpool before cooling. 9 ounces total used for those late additions in a 10 gallon batch. Another 4 ounces as dry hop. Wonderful hoppy session beer at 4.3%, but with body that's balanced with the hops. I would save all your Citra for 5 minute or flameout and dry hop additions, blended in equal quantity with Hallertau.

It's been almost a year since reading the Hops book by Stan Hieronymus. But I recall something about the oils or compounds in Hallertau being a catalyst in bringing out some favorable character in other hops. Sam Adam's Boston Lager is distinctly Hallertau character if you need a reference. I think it gets an orange character, not brightly citrus like a NW American hop though.

 

[BrewByBerg]

I think that you are on the right track with your original hop schedule. Use a small amount of hallertauer for your bittering addition at 60 minutes. Maybe to get ~10 IBU. Then I would probably just add all of the rest of the hops you're going to use at flame out and do a 20 minute hop stand. I don't have an IBU calculator in front of me, but I'd say that would get you between 30-40 IBUs, which is good for a pale ale, and you would get a huge amount of flavor and aroma. Have a look at "The Electric Brewery Pale Ale" recipe for insight on this technique. I believe he made a pale ale with nothing but a bittering addition and flame out hops. You might also consider a small dry hop addition.

Thanks for all the help guys, this beer kicks in at 6.4%abv with a starting gravity of 1.064, will one vial of wlp300 hef yeast be enough or will I need two?

 

[slarkin712]

If you had a really fresh pack of yeast I think it would be fine. If it's more than a week or two old I would make a very small starter just to build up cell health and not so much to grow more cells. That performs best, in terms of flavors produced, when underpitched. Something around 4-6 million cells per mL is advised to get good clove and banana flavors from a normal strength (OG 1.050) hefe. That would be 75-115 billion cells, and a typical pack is around 100 billion cells. You have a little higher gravity, so you might want a few more cells. I'd shoot for 125-150 billion healthy cells, and don't oxygenate the wort, or just a little oxygenation before pitching yeast. So, if you're not making yeast starters I'd say just use one vial/pack if it fresh, and two if they are older.

 

[Quaker]

My 2 cents is not to under pitch which I believe stresses the yeast more with an increase to the clove phenols. I think that would clash with the hops.

I would go with a healthy starter at a normal ale cell count.

But I bet if we can get 8 more folks to chime in, you'll end up with 11 opinions. Just note what you end up doing so you can adjust or recreate on a repeat batch if wanted.

 

[Psycotte]

Hey guys, I've made a post earlier on this and just wanted to get your final input on this.

"One of my favorite breweries makes a tropical pale ale. I finally found out from one of the workers that they use a German hef yeast and the grain bill of their Belgian golden ale. And is dry hopped which is why they call it a pale ale."

They use hallertauer and citra hops. Here is the hop schedule so far

.4oz hallertauer @ 60
.75oz citra @10
.25 oz hallertauer @10
.5oz hallertauer @ 5
1oz citra @5
1.5oz citra @ 0
Using wlp300 hef yeast.

I've never used hallertauer before so I'm not sure how strong it is? Also is this too hoppy while using a hef yeast? This beer has a very low bitterness but tons of flavor and aroma at the brewery.

Any help would be awesome. Thanks

What is the grain bill on this? Sounds interesting...

 

[BrewByBerg]

I think that you are on the right track with your original hop schedule. Use a small amount of hallertauer for your bittering addition at 60 minutes. Maybe to get ~10 IBU. Then I would probably just add all of the rest of the hops you're going to use at flame out and do a 20 minute hop stand. I don't have an IBU calculator in front of me, but I'd say that would get you between 30-40 IBUs, which is good for a pale ale, and you would get a huge amount of flavor and aroma. Have a look at "The Electric Brewery Pale Ale" recipe for insight on this technique. I believe he made a pale ale with nothing but a bittering addition and flame out hops. You might also consider a small dry hop addition.

I was thinking of adding corn sugar to this to help dry it out a little. I've always used 8oz in every batch of ipa and pale ale that I brew. Will this be okay using the hef yeast?

 

[slarkin712]

Hefe yeast attenuates pretty well, especially with a lower mash temp (149-152F). I don't think that the sugar is necessary, but I don't know the grain bill you're using. If you like your hoppy beers dry, then add the sugar. Hefe yeast will usually take a wheat beer with OG ~1.050 down to 1.010-14, sometimes lower if you mash at a lower temp. I've made a pale weizenbock with OG 1.069, mashed at 149F, that finished at 1.010. So, that gives you an idea of how well it can attenuate. Post you grain bill and we may be able to help predict an FG.

 

[BrewByBerg]

Hefe yeast attenuates pretty well, especially with a lower mash temp (149-152F). I don't think that the sugar is necessary, but I don't know the grain bill you're using. If you like your hoppy beers dry, then add the sugar. Hefe yeast will usually take a wheat beer with OG ~1.050 down to 1.010-14, sometimes lower if you mash at a lower temp. I've made a pale weizenbock with OG 1.069, mashed at 149F, that finished at 1.010. So, that gives you an idea of how well it can attenuate. Post you grain bill and we may be able to help predict an FG.

I'm using
6lbs liquid pilsner extract
.5lbs carapils (steep)
8oz sugar to dry it out

 

[slarkin712]

I'm using
6lbs liquid pilsner extract
.5lbs carapils (steep)
8oz sugar to dry it out

Looks good! Go with it and let us know how it turns out. The pilsner extract has some carapils in it. So with the other carapils and the sugar you should be able to get around 1.012-14.

 

[Psycotte]

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Hef Pale Ale

Style Name: Weizen/Weissbier
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.25 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.033
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.047
Final Gravity: 1.012
ABV (standard): 4.54%
IBU (tinseth): 30.01
SRM (morey): 2.73

FERMENTABLES:
6 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Pilsen (85.7%)
0.5 lb - German - Carapils (7.1%)
0.5 lb - Cane Sugar (7.1%)

HOPS:
0.4 oz - Domestic Hallertau, Type: Pellet, AA: 3.9, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 6.6
0.75 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 12.65
0.25 oz - Domestic Hallertau, Type: Pellet, AA: 3.9, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 1.49
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 9.27
1.5 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 0 days

YEAST:
White Labs - Hefeweizen Ale Yeast WLP300
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 74%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temp: 68 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 68 F
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)



Generated by Brewer's Friend - http://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2013-12-05 15:34 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2013-12-05 15:34 UTC


There's your recipe. Hope it helps. and best of luck.

 

[BrewByBerg]

HOME BREW RECIPE: Title: Hef Pale Ale Style Name: Weizen/Weissbier Boil Time: 60 min Batch Size: 5.25 gallons (fermentor volume) Boil Size: 7.5 gallons Boil Gravity: 1.033 Efficiency: 70% (brew house) STATS: Original Gravity: 1.047 Final Gravity: 1.012 ABV (standard): 4.54% IBU (tinseth): 30.01 SRM (morey): 2.73 FERMENTABLES: 6 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Pilsen (85.7%) 0.5 lb - German - Carapils (7.1%) 0.5 lb - Cane Sugar (7.1%) HOPS: 0.4 oz - Domestic Hallertau, Type: Pellet, AA: 3.9, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 6.6 0.75 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 12.65 0.25 oz - Domestic Hallertau, Type: Pellet, AA: 3.9, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 1.49 1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 9.27 1.5 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 0 days YEAST: White Labs - Hefeweizen Ale Yeast WLP300 Starter: No Form: Liquid Attenuation (avg): 74% Flocculation: Low Optimum Temp: 68 - 72 F Fermentation Temp: 68 F Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P) Generated by Brewer's Friend - http://www.brewersfriend.com/ Date: 2013-12-05 15:34 UTC Recipe Last Updated: 2013-12-05 15:34 UTC There's your recipe. Hope it helps. and best of luck.

Thanks a lot for the help!! I will get back to you and let you know how it goes. Cheers!

 

[mscott5205]

How did this turn out?