Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

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Brewed bobrews recipe from a dozen or so pages back this morning. Only difference was I used c20 instead of caramalt, and upped the wheat to10% as I did not have white wheat on hand.

Also went with .75oz columbus FWH and a 10 ml hopshot instead of 13ml. Other than that, followed the recipe and used some 4th gen yeast from a can of heady. Wort tasted and smelled awesome. OG was 1.077.

Not used to a 5 hour brew day. I rarely go past 3.5 hours. The long hopstand, 90 minute boil and a long mash add a nice chunk of time to the brew day. Not to mention, I havent fly sparged in a while.
 
@kdw2pd

English Malts are very different from American malts. There are no equivalents. So your best bet is to go with an english malt that is similar in character.
 
bobbrews said:
@kdw2pd

English Malts are very different from American malts. There are no equivalents. So your best bet is to go with an english malt that is similar in character.
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Respectfully, I don't agree with this; at least fully.

I agree Maris is a totally different beast than US Pale.

However, I bet you would find it difficult to tell a difference between Biscuit malt and Victory malt if given the two to munch on. Same goes with Roasted/Toasted malts, in general.

Here is a grain substitution chart I use:

www.kotmf.com/articles/maltnames.php
 
As you can see there are 313 pages here...That being said, on a scale of 1-10 (10 being spot on) how close do you think you guys are to the real Heady? Point out what you think needs tweaked, why, and how you are going to execute next time. If we can find a patter between all of us here we may be able to figure out what the problem is and make a quality clone.
 
reddskinnfan said:
Respectfully, I don't agree with this; at least fully.

I agree Maris is a totally different beast than US Pale.

However, I bet you would find it difficult to tell a difference between Biscuit malt and Victory malt if given the two to munch on. Same goes with Roasted/Toasted malts, in general.
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We are talking about cara- / crystal malts here. Thomas Fawcett Caramalt is 25-30L. You could substitute this with American Crystal 20-30L in terms of being a similar Lovibond, but you won't get the same character.

US domestic crystal malt is made from 6 row, whereas the European versions are derived from 2 row. British Crystal is more fruity and toffee-like while American Crystal is more toasty and full of caramel.

But the same doesn't go for roasted malts in general. British versions are also vastly different in flavor. If you were comparing Lovibond rating alone, then you might be right. However, there is more to it than this.
 
reddskinnfan said:
Respectfully, I don't agree with this; at least fully.

I agree Maris is a totally different beast than US Pale.

However, I bet you would find it difficult to tell a difference between Biscuit malt and Victory malt if given the two to munch on. Same goes with Roasted/Toasted malts, in general.

Here is a grain substitution chart I use:

www.kotmf.com/articles/maltnames.php
Click to expand...


Your comparing American to Belgian Malts there. They are close, but as others have stated, British stuff is a whole other animal. There are no subs for Caramalt, Pearl, optic, halcyon, MO and GP.
 
Agreed on the British base malts. That was my caveat.

As far as Crystals and Roasts go, not much difference once you do. The base grain (2- or 6-row will dictate some slight differences, but not juch to an untrained pallette.
 
geoffey said:
I've been finding that beers I do with hopstands hit their peak at 4-6 weeks. That's pretty interesting to hear yours was so good at 12-18 days. The latest one I did was also 5.5%abv, but with a 5oz 30 min steep and a 3oz dry hop. It was NOT that good at 12-18 days, but at day 26 turned freaking amazing.
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4-6 weeks/ 26 days from brew day or from tapping (after carbing)
 
Anyone know a sufficient substitute for Apollo hops? Every substitute chart I have seen doesn't even include Apollo.
 
Just curious if people are noticing a difference in harvested yeast vs the commercial stuff? I have my first heady clone fermenting now but I did brew a few pales and ipas already and am loving the yeast I harvested. I've yet to try the commercial yeast.
 
Braufessor said:
That was not a direct Heady clone attempt. It was just a 5.5% pale ale I brewed, using a 7 ounce hop stand at the end of the boil. I used some comet in it (As it was a new suggested hop). No dry hop at all. Basically a really big, long (1-1.5 hour) hop stand. No dry hop. 10-12 day primary. Keg, carb and drink. That particular batch was so good that it was gone in less than a week from kegging - 18 days from brew day.
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Thanks.
So what kind of quick carb method are you using??
I'm revising my old "3 week primary, 2 week carb" routine!!
 
doomXsaloon said:
Thanks.
So what kind of quick carb method are you using??
I'm revising my old "3 week primary, 2 week carb" routine!!
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I generally hook it up to 22-25lbs for 1.5-2 days and then back it off to about 12lbs. I check it (ie. drink a glass) everyday ....... strictly for quality control purposes of course:tank: When it seems about right I back it off to serving pressure so it does not get overcarbed. It might still take 3-5 days to kind of settle in.... but it works pretty slick.
 
Anyone have anything new on this recipe? I am done with school...... so I am a full time (Well, between yardwork and my wife's list) brewer for the summer. Sitting here drinking a Heady right now...... and damn, I gotta get closer than I have.

I am thinking I will try bobbrews version - as posted - for my first trial run of summer.

I am also taking Conan yeast through a series of 5-6 beers to try it out as a "house yeast" - kicking off tomorrow with a Blonde and a porter. Using the blonde to cultivate a bunch of yeast to repitch into future beers. Besides the blonde, and porter I am going to use some jars of harvested yeast to brew an Amber, APA, IPA and perhaps a brown.

I have brewed about 15-20 beers off of some yeast I harvested from heady last November. All were basically APA's and IPA's though. Curious how it does in some other beers.
 
Braufessor said:
I generally hook it up to 22-25lbs for 1.5-2 days and then back it off to about 12lbs. I check it (ie. drink a glass) everyday ....... strictly for quality control purposes of course:tank: When it seems about right I back it off to serving pressure so it does not get overcarbed. It might still take 3-5 days to kind of settle in.... but it works pretty slick.
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Interesting. At 22-25lbs for 1.5-2 days, do you help it along by rolling or rocking the keg, or do you just let it sit for the 1.5-2 days?
 
I have done the 25-30lbs and roll it method. I have tried 25-30lbs for several days...... I have found both to be hit and miss. Sometimes it works out ok, sometimes i get overcarbed, foamy beer that ends up taking longer to get right than if I just would have used a little patience to start with.
I find that doing 22-25lbs for a couple days, then backing it off gets it to a "drinkable/sampling" level of carbonation in 2-3 days, and then really tends to fall in about perfect around 5-7 days.
I think it just takes some time to really get a smooth carbonation into your beer...but, it is possible to speed it up a bit.
 
reddskinnfan said:
Needs a little more carb ( a couple more days), but this is an AMAZING beer. Never has Heady, but if anything like this, I will have to try it.
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Looks great:mug: Is this from your post #3118? I am gearing up to try another couple batches of this in the next couple weeks. Got some Heady yeast going in a Blonde Ale right now that I am going to harvest and use.
 
Braufessor said:
Looks great:mug: Is this from your post #3118? I am gearing up to try another couple batches of this in the next couple weeks. Got some Heady yeast going in a Blonde Ale right now that I am going to harvest and use.
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Yup, from that recipe. Tastes like dank grapefruit with pine.
 
Can you guys recommend a White Labs alternative to Giga and Conan. I need to make my backup starter using White Labs yeast for a brew day on Saturday. I'm not sure I'll be able to get any Conan by Saturday. White Labs is right around the corner from where I live.

So, what WL yeast would you recommend as an alternative?
 
I don't know that there is a similar strain.

I suppose you could try something like Burton Ale (023)???. I would probably just use 001 or 007 or 051 maybe.

None of these are really conan.... but, they should make a good IPA.
 
Wyeast 1318 London Ale III (Boddington's) is supposedly the original. Don't think there's a White Labs version, though.
 
@roncruiser - White Labs banks and produces Vermont Ale from The Yeast Bay. This is a solid choice for conan. Im not sure if they can sell you any, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.
 
White labs 644...this is the closest thing you will get to Conan. Great yeast strain for a very tasty ipa and other unique ales.
 
I would not even attempt to mimic the effects of Conan by choosing another yeast.

If you can't get Conan, then just use WLP001 or WLP090. Won't be the same, but you're guaranteed a good IIPA.
 
Took a FG reading after I racked into the keg a week ago. To my surprise it was only down to 1.018. This should have been a pretty fermentable wort. From experience, Cali ale yeast would have got me close to 1.010. Hope it's not too sweet.

Maybe I'll get lucky and it'll drop a couple more points.
 

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