Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

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Dont know, but looks like the film crew is from my area. Maybe I can get them to send me some photos, you know, Phillies fan to Phillies fan.
 
Gotta find out what that bag is back there. I can't find anything of reference on the interwebs that looks anything like that sack. The only sacks I see with side writing on them, usually, "use no hooks", is Canada malting and then the sack of Munich from Thomas Fawcett has it. But the bottom doesn't match up. The only thing Canada malt produces that TF doesn't is White Wheat and Rye malt.
 
FATC1TY said:
Hopefully they don't start scouring through their photos and clips and remove/edit anything that could be helpful.
Click to expand...

I doubt it, but who knows.

I looked through every photo that was posted on that site Vegan posted, there wasnt much to look at except the 2 that were already posted. There was one where a guy was adding a big bag of hops to the kettle but we could only see the back of the bag.

That bag with the black writing does look like a Canada malting bag, I only ever bought their 2row though.
 
Coff said:
I doubt it, but who knows.

I looked through every photo that was posted on that site Vegan posted, there wasnt much to look at except the 2 that were already posted. There was one where a guy was adding a big bag of hops to the kettle but we could only see the back of the bag.

That bag with the black writing does look like a Canada malting bag, I only ever bought their 2row though.
Click to expand...


I'm thinking it's either Canada Malting or Castle Malting, only two companies that have anything similar. I think it's Canada too because on some of their sacks, on the bottom, they have 3 check boxes on each side, and then in the middle, an area to write something.

Bottom left:

13246d1255747454-best-place-buy-bulk-malt-midcountrymalt.jpg


Problem is Canada malts new bags appear to be blue, I could get any blue out of that photo it was black.
 
theveganbrewer said:
I'm thinking it's either Canada Malting or Castle Malting, only two companies that have anything similar. I think it's Canada too because on some of their sacks, on the bottom, they have 3 check boxes on each side, and then in the middle, an area to write something.
Click to expand...

No surprise on TF Caramalt IMO. Figured as much, but still good to know! As far as the black bag, I agree, think it has to be Canada Malting... Looks an awful lot like the bags in the attached photo. Pretty certain it says "use no hooks" on the side, and the bottom of the bag you can make out the country malt logo, as well as the check boxes. I am no wiz with photos, i'm sure someone could sharpen it and make it clearer in no time.

Fawcett makes Rye malt, the don't make is white wheat. A few other possibilities, but White wheat actually makes sense, alot of folks use some wheat malt in the grist for mouthfeel. May make more sense than torrefied wheat.

canada malt.jpg
 
I agree its probably white wheat. I did just tap this and I am confident saying this is basically heady topper. Aroma, mouth feel, and taste are all there. This smells exactly like the last heady I had. The taste is also spot on. I encourage you all to try brewing 4.0 as closely as you can. If we can verify the white wheat swap, I'd do that, but otherwise try to hit all the other numbers. Find the caramalt its important and ferment at 68.
 
theveganbrewer said:
I agree its probably white wheat. I did just tap this and I am confident saying this is basically heady topper. Aroma, mouth feel, and taste are all there. This smells exactly like the last heady I had. The taste is also spot on. I encourage you all to try brewing 4.0 as closely as you can. If we can verify the white wheat swap, I'd do that, but otherwise try to hit all the other numbers. Find the caramalt its important and ferment at 68.
Click to expand...

Nice! Going to do something close to 4.0 in a month or so (I want it at its peak to serve in August.)

Well done!
 
theveganbrewer said:
I agree its probably white wheat. I did just tap this and I am confident saying this is basically heady topper. Aroma, mouth feel, and taste are all there. This smells exactly like the last heady I had. The taste is also spot on. I encourage you all to try brewing 4.0 as closely as you can. If we can verify the white wheat swap, I'd do that, but otherwise try to hit all the other numbers. Find the caramalt its important and ferment at 68.
Click to expand...

Where is the post with version 4.0? I can't find it in my phone....
 
theveganbrewer said:
I agree its probably white wheat. I did just tap this and I am confident saying this is basically heady topper. Aroma, mouth feel, and taste are all there. This smells exactly like the last heady I had. The taste is also spot on. I encourage you all to try brewing 4.0 as closely as you can. If we can verify the white wheat swap, I'd do that, but otherwise try to hit all the other numbers. Find the caramalt its important and ferment at 68.
Click to expand...

If you update post #1 I'll be your bestie.
 
The fellas at Motto Films got back to me, they didnt have anything to add really but very nice folks. They said they are going try to do more beer centric docs in the future so follow what they are doing on twitter.

They did say that John talks alot about Conan and is very passionate about it, so look out for that in the mini doc.
 
Heady Topper Clone Recipe Attempt 4 from http://www.signpostbrewing.com/heady-topper-clone-brew-4-0/

Batch Size: 5.00 gal

Boil Size: 6.47

11lb 4oz Pearl Malt (84.9%)- SRM 2.4
12 oz Caramalt (5.7%)- SRM 17
12 oz White Wheat (5.7%)- SRM 1.7
8 oz Turbinado Sugar (3.8%)- Added at flameout.
Mash at 150 degrees for 60 minutes.

Boil Time: 90 min

10.00 ml** *Hopshot- Boil 90.0 min- 117.8 IBUs
1.00 oz*** Simcoe[13.00 %] Boil 5.0 min-8.3 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo- Boil 5.0 min -4.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Boil 0.0 min – 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Boil 0.0 min -0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo [12.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days -0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo [17.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs

Split dry hop in half and add half on day 14 and day 21. Carb on day 25.


Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.073 SG** *Measured Original Gravity: 1.073 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG** *Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.8 %** *Actual Alcohol by Vol: 8.5 %
Bitterness: 130.7 IBUs** *Calories: 249.4 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 6.4 SRM

http://www.signpostbrewing.com/heady-topper-clone-brew-4-0/

I know I decided on dry hop day to cut down the Columbus from 1.50 ounce to 1 ounce. I think I also replaced that half ounce with something else, but I can't remember. I remember going up to 0.75 ounces of something in dryhop 1, it was either Amarillo or Centennial. The 2nd stage was 1 oz Simcoe, 0.5 Columbus, 0.5 Amarillo, 0.5 Centennial, and 0.25 Apollo though.
 
theveganbrewer said:
Heady Topper Clone Recipe Attempt 4 from http://www.signpostbrewing.com/heady-topper-clone-brew-4-0/

Batch Size: 5.00 gal

Boil Size: 6.47

11lb 4oz Pearl Malt (84.9%)- SRM 2.4
12 oz Caramalt (5.7%)- SRM 17
12 oz White Wheat (5.7%)- SRM 1.7
8 oz Turbinado Sugar (3.8%)- Added at flameout.
Mash at 150 degrees for 60 minutes.

Boil Time: 90 min

10.00 ml** *Hopshot- Boil 90.0 min- 117.8 IBUs
1.00 oz*** Simcoe[13.00 %] Boil 5.0 min-8.3 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo- Boil 5.0 min -4.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Boil 0.0 min – 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Boil 0.0 min -0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo [12.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days -0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo [17.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs

Split dry hop in half and add half on day 14 and day 21. Carb on day 25.


Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.073 SG** *Measured Original Gravity: 1.073 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG** *Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.8 %** *Actual Alcohol by Vol: 8.5 %
Bitterness: 130.7 IBUs** *Calories: 249.4 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 6.4 SRM

http://www.signpostbrewing.com/heady-topper-clone-brew-4-0/

I know I decided on dry hop day to cut down the Columbus from 1.50 ounce to 1 ounce. I think I also replaced that half ounce with something else, but I can't remember. I remember going up to 0.75 ounces of something in dryhop 1, it was either Amarillo or Centennial. The 2nd stage was 1 oz Simcoe, 0.5 Columbus, 0.5 Amarillo, 0.5 Centennial, and 0.25 Apollo though.
Click to expand...

Thank you!! Going to give it a try soon!!
 
What yeast would be the best runner-up for us without Conan or heady to harvest from? I'm leaning towards S-05 fermented cool because it can throw a bit of peach at the temp, but I'm not entirely sure that's the right choice.
 
I just want to make a note about Thomas Fawcett Caramalt, which appears to not be sold in North America, at least I can't find it anywhere. The TF spec sheet lists a IOB color, not lovibond, of 25-30. It's the British color measurement number. So often times LHBS will erroneously say this is lovibond without converting. Here are the formulas from graham here http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22823#p256284

ASBC to IoB = Lov *2.218-1.2 (compensates for colour glasses, mash density and path length)
IoB to ASBC = (IoB +1.2)/2.218 (ditto)

EBC to IoB = EBC*0.8368 (compensates for mash density only)
IoB to EBC = IoB/0.8368 (ditto)

ASBC to EBC = Lov * 2.65 -1.2 (compensates for colour glasses and path length)
EBC to ASBC = (EBC +1.2)/2.65 (ditto)

IoB to EBC- 27.5/0.8368= 32.86

EBC to ASBC Lovibond= (32.86+1.2)/2.65= 12.85 SRM.

I just did that on the fly, it's different than my original calculation, but accurate with what I heard from TF who "guessed" 10.5-12.5 SRM.
 
Well, looks like we won't have to find substitutes anymore, my local LHBS got in contact with the Thomas Fawcett distributor and ordered caramalt. It'll be there Friday, they'll have it up on the web soon. Brewbrothers.
 
I just picked up the ingredients today including Caramalt (not sure if it was TF) from Brew Brothers. I would also like to know what yeast to substitute for Conan? I'm going to be brewing a 3.5 gallon batch soon.

Edit: Just looked at their website and see that their current caramalt is by Crisp.
 
kigerbrewing said:
I just picked up the ingredients today including Caramalt (not sure if it was TF) from Brew Brothers. I would also like to know what yeast to substitute for Conan? I'm going to be brewing a 3.5 gallon batch soon.

Edit: Just looked at their website and see that their current caramalt is by Crisp.
Click to expand...

I used Crisp in 4.0, it's good. Brew Brothers will have TF caramalt tomorrow though if you want to just get it and chuck the Crisp stuff.
 
passedpawn said:
I can do it for you. Let me know exactly what needs to go exactly where.
Click to expand...

I think we should add the recipe from this post https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/heady-topper-can-you-clone-390082/index98.html#post5235440 to replace the entire notes section on post 1. The notes are in the thread a few pages in already. Can you leave the Recipe Resources section and add these links under there?

Thomas Fawcett Caramalt:

Chicago Brew Works Thomas Fawcett Caramalt 1lb

Brew Brothers

Also, the link on the Brew Brothers hop extract is invalid, it should be

http://www.brewbrothers.biz/Hop-JizzTM

Thanks.
 
kigerbrewing said:
I just picked up the ingredients today including Caramalt (not sure if it was TF) from Brew Brothers. I would also like to know what yeast to substitute for Conan? I'm going to be brewing a 3.5 gallon batch soon.

Edit: Just looked at their website and see that their current caramalt is by Crisp.
Click to expand...

Conan is a BIG part of the beer... there will be no "good" substitute to be honest. A clean fermenting ale yeast will be perfectly fine, but it won't be the same.
 
theveganbrewer said:
I just want to make a note about Thomas Fawcett Caramalt, which appears to not be sold in North America, at least I can't find it anywhere. The TF spec sheet lists a IOB color, not lovibond, of 25-30. It's the British color measurement number. So often times LHBS will erroneously say this is lovibond without converting. Here are the formulas from graham here http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22823#p256284

ASBC to IoB = Lov *2.218-1.2 (compensates for colour glasses, mash density and path length)
IoB to ASBC = (IoB +1.2)/2.218 (ditto)

EBC to IoB = EBC*0.8368 (compensates for mash density only)
IoB to EBC = IoB/0.8368 (ditto)

ASBC to EBC = Lov * 2.65 -1.2 (compensates for colour glasses and path length)
EBC to ASBC = (EBC +1.2)/2.65 (ditto)

IoB to EBC- 27.5/0.8368= 32.86

EBC to ASBC Lovibond= (32.86+1.2)/2.65= 12.85 SRM.

I just did that on the fly, it's different than my original calculation, but accurate with what I heard from TF who "guessed" 10.5-12.5 SRM.
Click to expand...

The Country Malt Group (exclusive distributor of TF in the US) had Caramalt listed as 20-27 lovibond on their website. I asked them about it, they quickly got back to me:

5:25 PM (15 minutes ago)

to me

Hello Dan,

I did a little digging and I believe you are correct – the Caramalt Color is a typo.

I referred to another chart I have on file from Fawcett and in that they state that Caramalt has a color range of 8 – 12 L.

Many thanks to Glenn of Country Malt/Great Western for his response!
 
Conan definitely throws some serious Belgian notes at high temps. I made one and had left for a work trip and ambient in my house got over 72. I really need to get my ferm chamber built. This batch is very clovey and basically undrinkable. I was pretty careful on sanitation but I've come to the conclusion I stressed the yeast from the temp
 
dbennett78 said:
Conan definitely throws some serious Belgian notes at high temps. I made one and had left for a work trip and ambient in my house got over 72. I really need to get my ferm chamber built. This batch is very clovey and basically undrinkable. I was pretty careful on sanitation but I've come to the conclusion I stressed the yeast from the temp
Click to expand...

What day of ferm did it rise that high? During active I presume?
 

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