Have anybody ever solved the "earthy, dirty" aftertaste issue

[The_Glue]

Problem: made 8 brews, used different techniques, different waters, lately i am controlling the ph, minerals, ferm temp, pitch a huge amount of dry yeast, leave beer in the fermenter for 4 weeks etc. I used US-05 all the time.
I drank the first 3 brews within 3 weeks after bottling and as i remember they did not had the off taste.

Now all the other ones developed this off taste sooner or later, one of them was perfect even without co2 during bottling but got progressively worse after aging. I think all of them went bad within 3-4 weeks, the oldest one spent 4 weeks in the fermenter and 7 weeks in the bottle and the described off taste did not get better. While the hop aroma and grassy flavors are faded away slowly the after taste got maybe even worse.

Here is a key quote:

I seem to get this flavor any time I add a significant amount of hops. I get the normal hop flavors (citrus, tropical fruit, etc) when it is straight out of primary and even for the first few days of tapping the keg. But it quickly turns to earthy flavors within days of kegging. I've had this problem for years. I regularly see other people post about it but I never see any resolution. Boo.

I've seen a few threads describing the same problem but not in a single one the original poster came back and stated that i did x (like started controlling the ph or started pitching the right amount of yeast or skipped sparging etc.) and my beer became good. There were a lot of different advices everywhere (like control the ferm temp or don't use argentin cascade etc.) but no one returned to the thread to say that it solve their problems.

 

[beertroll]

The fact that it's taking several weeks to manifest would seem to indicate an infection or some sort of water problem that you're introducing at bottling time. Go over your sanitation process with a fine toothed comb. Try a different sanitizer. Use distilled water instead of tap for your bottling sugar and sanitization for a batch.

 

[The_Glue]

The fact that it's taking several weeks to manifest would seem to indicate an infection or some sort of water problem that you're introducing at bottling time. Go over your sanitation process with a fine toothed comb. Try a different sanitizer. Use distilled water instead of tap for your bottling sugar and sanitization for a batch.

What i am planning for the next brewday is using totally new equipment (pots, hoses etc.) different LHBS, (which means different malts and hops) a new sanitizer (starsan instead of chemipro oxi) and making an extract beer from 3 different water sources. (untreated tap water, treated tap water /campden, salts, precipation/ and a bottled water)
If the extract will turn out good then i will move onto using malt extract instead of mashing.
If it won't be good then i will try to import some kind of RO filter from the US. (they doesn't really sell that stuff here) I might will try tap water from a different part of the country before that.
And if that will be good then i will start to do all-grain again. (all 8 of my brews were all-grain btw)

(btw the reason why i want to try out lot of different waters instead of RO or distilled because both of those are basically non existent in my country or super expensive, i think i can get a gallon of distilled water at pharmacies for like 25$ but they can't even sell 1 gal worth of distilled water for the same customer because of regulations)

 

[The_Glue]

Btw what should i use for bottling sugar? Boil some distilled water with sugar and use that? I added sugar individually to all the bottles before this from "coffe sugar paper", looks like this:

It worked for numerous brewers in my country without problems.

 

[Yooper]

Water is probably the culprit, but I want to rule out some other things. You use S05 yeast, directly from the package? What is the fermentation temperature?

You mentioned leaving the beer for four weeks in the fermenter. Why not try 10 days or so, and see if you like that flavor better? I normally have my beers in the fermenter for 10-14 days, as I do not like the flavor imparted by a longer time on the yeast cake. Maybe your issue is something as simple as that.

 

[The_Glue]

Water is probably the culprit, but I want to rule out some other things. You use S05 yeast, directly from the package? What is the fermentation temperature?

You mentioned leaving the beer for four weeks in the fermenter. Why not try 10 days or so, and see if you like that flavor better? I normally have my beers in the fermenter for 10-14 days, as I do not like the flavor imparted by a longer time on the yeast cake. Maybe your issue is something as simple as that.

I use US-05 directly from the package. Since i have only brewed 1 gallon brews yet i only pitched 1/5 of a full package during the first brews since i assumed that a full package is for 5 gallons but for the last two i pitched 1/2 of a package.
I pitch around 70F and then aerate by shaking the fermenter and then put the whole thing into a swamp cooler. I don't know the actual temp of the wort but the water around the glass fermenter were always between 64-68 depending on which batch we are talking about. I assume that the water temp should be pretty close to the wort temp since i use a glass fermenter and the water level was a bit higher than the wort's level.

I always had bubbles within 12 hours but i have never seen a proper krausen yet only about 1 inch foam everytime.

I have never tried to ferment shorter than 4 weeks because i fear bottle bombs, maybe i should try that.

I don't do cold crashing or stuff like that, after 4 weeks the beer is pretty clean, i store the bottles in a room which is between 65-70F depending on the time of the day and chill the bottles in a refrigerator for 1-2 days before consumption.

 

[Captain Damage]

I'm leaning towards your bottle priming sugar. You're adding that directly to your bottles. Those packets are not sanitary. Try batch priming. Mix the total amount of sugar with some water, boil for 5 minutes and add your beer to it, then bottle. That's how we do it for large batches. You might have to jury-rig some stuff for your small batches.

 

[masonsjax]

Sounds like oxidation to me. Maybe you're splashing the beer too much when bottling?

 

[biggmatt]

If it went bad after bottling, it is sanitation. Start using chlorine Bleach. I am sure it is available. It is more effective and cheaper. A capful in a sink of water for sanitizing equipment. A small drop in a sauce pan of water for the caps.

 

[masonsjax]

So splashing the beer at bottling time can't ruin the flavor? I've never bottled but have seen it happen to kegged beers. I think that wet cardboard flavor tastes earthy, reminds me of a moldy root cellar.

 

[The_Glue]

On my next brewday i will try a different sanitizer and will do batch priming.
@biggmatt: Yeah chlorine bleach is available. But isn't it the same stuff what ruins our brewing water?
@masonsjax: I did not really splashed it. Also i've seen here that yeast eats O2 anyways during bottle carbing. I am still open to the idea though. Can i deliberately oxidize commercial beer to compare the tastes?

 

[beertroll]

a new sanitizer (starsan instead of chemipro oxi)

I suspect this is the root of the issue right here. I'm not convinced that hydrogen peroxide based products are effective brewing sanitizers. I used One-Step for a while, but I got much better results after switching to StarSan.

 

[flars]

On my next brewday i will try a different sanitizer and will do batch priming.
@biggmatt: Yeah chlorine bleach is available. But isn't it the same stuff what ruins our brewing water?

Stay away from bleach. It can be used for a sanitizer, but then you need to rinse over and over. You no longer have a sanitized surface. Switch to Starsan if you can. Chemipro and other peroxides are not effective sanitizers.

@masonsjax: I did not really splashed it. Also i've seen here that yeast eats O2 anyways during bottle carbing. I am still open to the idea though. Can i deliberately oxidize commercial beer to compare the tastes?

There is more oxygen in the headspace than the yeast need for bottle conditioning. Adding more oxygen would be counter intuitive and may lead ot oxidation later.

You did not mention what type of hops you are using. Are they pellet form sealed in 1 ounce packages? Are they leaf hops stored in an open bin? Old hops can produce some stale and muddy off flavors. Poorly stored hops can introduce bacteria, especially when they are used for dry hopping.

Definitely change the sugar you use for priming. Corn sugar or table sugar in solution and batch priming.



I hope you can get this problem solved.

 

[The_Glue]

You did not mention what type of hops you are using. Are they pellet form sealed in 1 ounce packages? Are they leaf hops stored in an open bin? Old hops can produce some stale and muddy off flavors. Poorly stored hops can introduce bacteria, especially when they are used for dry hopping.

Definitely change the sugar you use for priming. Corn sugar or table sugar in solution and batch priming.



I hope you can get this problem solved.

Pellets in 1 ounce packages. I've been storing them in the freezer but my LHBS might just stored it in a room around 70F since everyone is pretty new here to storing highly aromatic hops.

 

[biggmatt]

Yes it is. Of course you can overdue it, but i've been using it almost 20 years. I shake everything when i pull it out of the water. I never had any chlorine taste in my beers.

 

[flars]

Yes it is. Of course you can overdue it, but i've been using it almost 20 years. I shake everything when i pull it out of the water. I never had any chlorine taste in my beers.

Since the time I started home brewing nearly 30 years ago some of my techniques have changed. A lot of my techniques have changed since I found HBT.

 

[jonmohno]

Sounded to me in your first post that you were saying you were pitching a ton of yeast. Maybe this is the problem along with leaving it sit on the yeast longer. Pitching plenty of yeast is usually a good thing but maybe if your pitching like 10x more than you need to maybe it would be an issue. Sounds like you need to think about things like water and ingredient freshness/quality. Messing with your ph and minerals can be tricky and in my experience a tiny bit goes a long way. Also I think it can take a little practice to get great all grain beers straight off the bat, old or poorly stored grains would not be good also. Sounds to me like maybe you have old extract. Also are you pouring your beers with the yeast sediment in the bottem? Are you letting it settle good and keeping the sediment out?

 

[The_Glue]

Since i want to skip the use of a bottling bucket and bottling wand for a while can i add boiled and dissolved priming sugar to the primary during bottling time?

Sounded to me in your first post that you were saying you were pitching a ton of yeast. Maybe this is the problem along with leaving it sit on the yeast longer. Pitching plenty of yeast is usually a good thing but maybe if your pitching like 10x more than you need to maybe it would be an issue. Sounds like you need to think about things like water and ingredient freshness/quality. Messing with your ph and minerals can be tricky and in my experience a tiny bit goes a long way. Also I think it can take a little practice to get great all grain beers straight off the bat, old or poorly stored grains would not be good also. Sounds to me like maybe you have old extract. Also are you pouring your beers with the yeast sediment in the bottem? Are you letting it settle good and keeping the sediment out?

I definitely did not overpitched for the first two brews and the off taste was there. By the end of the four weeks the beer looks pretty clear in my primary, i also try to avoid transferring slurry to the bottles. I keep the sediment in the bottles during pouring. I dont use extract. I know a lot of others who made beers without off tastes buying from this LHBS so i dont think that my grains were bad.

 

[Captain Damage]

Since i want to skip the use of a bottling bucket and bottling wand for a while can i add boiled and dissolved priming sugar to the primary during bottling time?

You'd have no way of mixing it in thoroughly without stirring up your trub. Maybe look into carb tabs? You add one or two to each bottle. I don't have a lot of experience with them. Some brands contain "heading agents," Coopers is just sugar.

 

[The_Glue]

I just had an idea. My water have 50ppm magnesium by default. I think by the end of the boil this creeps up to 75-100ppm. Can this cause this offtaste?
Palmer says this:

amounts greater than 50 ppm tend to give a sour-bitter taste to the beer

 

[daggers_nz]

I seem to get this earthy taste with any amber beer I make. ESB, Vienna lager, Cali common, American amber. No single hop or grain ingredient is common between them. Doesn't happen with light lagers, pale ales, porters or stouts. It's frustrating because amber beers are some of my favorites. I've come to think it's actually my pallet letting me down.

With the Vienna lager, it seems to taste better from the fridge after 1-2 hours rather than a few days. Go figure