harvesting commercial yeast questions

[rockdemon]

So, im gonna try to make a yeast starter with yeast from three 0.75L bottles of moinette(belgian strong saison). I tried to use the calculator from brewersfriend but it doesnt really work(liquid slurry must be a positive number).
Ill have roughly 0.1 L of slurry and have no idea of how much wort i should use. i assume i need to feed the starter with more wort a couple of times aswell and i have no idea of the amounts to use.

I dont have a stirplate and i create yeststarters in a 4l carboy with a airlock. I need enough yeast to make 10 L of saison with OG around 1050-1060...

Can i do it like this:

pitch the slurry into my 1 gal carboy. add 0.2 gal of wort(grav 1040). stir it now and then, after (how many days?) add 0.2 gal of wort again, wait (how many days?) and do the same procedure again? til i have almost 1 gal of wort. let the yeast drop to the bottom and then decant the beer on top and then brew my beer and add this yeastslurry?

 

[ColoHox]

You could probably do this in your 4L carboy, but that is a lot of headspace for a crucial first step. Could you do the first step in something small, then move it to your larger carboy?

I would start 100ml of bottle dregs in 500ml wort, then after 1-2 days, step up to 1L for 2-4 days, then 2.5L for 2-4, crash, decant, and pitch. That should give you enough yeast for a 10L batch, which looks to be 50-60 ml. You might have enough after your 1L step, it just depends on how healthy the yeast are.

I prefer the Mr. Malty calculator for slurry pitches.

 

[FCBR]

Do you have a vase? I have used one to make a starter in.

 

[mtnagel]

Here's how I've harvested from a bottle/can before.

 

[Riot]

Do you have a vase? I have used one to make a starter in.

Flat bottomed vases are awesome. I have one on a stirplate right now

 

[rockdemon]

O yeah, a vase was a good idea! I made a 0.7 L starter with gravity 1044. I use the carboy and it looks like its working. I ordered a smackpack with belgian saison yeast to have just in case. I might even do two saisons with different yeasts. Btw do you guys have any idea about why all my beers come out dark? Its really annoying... This is supposed to be a sweetwater pale ale clone...



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Hello]

O yeah, a vase was a good idea! I made a 0.7 L starter with gravity 1044. I use the carboy and it looks like its working. I ordered a smackpack with belgian saison yeast to have just in case. I might even do two saisons with different yeasts. Btw do you guys have any idea about why all my beers come out dark? Its really annoying... This is supposed to be a sweetwater pale ale clone... View attachment 198526



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Are you an extract brewer?

OP, did the initial slurry take hold yet. I"m about to try this.

 

[HopHeavy]

Don't get discouraged harvesting from bottle conditioned brew. A definite +1 to Colohox's methods. Start small, (maybe as low as an initial 200ml starter) Don't increase the volume too much at each increment or you risk infection.

This is a wild guess, but oxygenation of hot wort may be your issue on your darker than planned brews. You might take a look at your process to see if it contributes to it. Maybe lines if you are recirculating for the chill or during the boil, or if you transfer before reaching pitching temps? Otherwise, you might have some folks look at your recipes. Some have adjusted grain bills for volume incorrectly with varying results... Some find a happy accident, others a ruined batch.

 

[ericbw]

Your plan is good, but you might want to start with a lower OG. Some say 1.030, some even lower for the first bottle dregs. I do 1.030.

For the first step there might be really little visible activity, but you'll find more yeast in the bottom. You can use a 22oz bomber for the first few steps. I think about a cup (250ml), then 2 cups (500), then go to a larger bottle. A mason jar would also work. Sanitization is important in the early stages.

What kind of yeast?

 

[rockdemon]

Are you an extract brewer?

OP, did the initial slurry take hold yet. I"m about to try this.

Yeah started it yesterday and it seems to be working. It bubbles and smells like lovely yeast!

 

[rockdemon]

Don't get discouraged harvesting from bottle conditioned brew. A definite +1 to Colohox's methods. Start small, (maybe as low as an initial 200ml starter) Don't increase the volume too much at each increment or you risk infection.

This is a wild guess, but oxygenation of hot wort may be your issue on your darker than planned brews. You might take a look at your process to see if it contributes to it. Maybe lines if you are recirculating for the chill or during the boil, or if you transfer before reaching pitching temps? Otherwise, you might have some folks look at your recipes. Some have adjusted grain bills for volume incorrectly with varying results... Some find a happy accident, others a ruined batch.

About the color. I do a no chill cool so no oxidation there. But i sparge with 3 liters of 70degrees C water to get more sugar from the mashing(biab) Even the starter i made for the yeast got that dark color and its just water and light dme. My wort becomes dark just by mashing at 65 degrees C for 90 min...

 

[rockdemon]

the starter. Its the same ugly color as my beers👎


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Riot]

I meant to post this earlier in the week but forgot about the thread. I have had the best results in bottle conditioning by pouring 30ml of ~1.035 wort into a single bottle. From there it goes on a stirplate with a 150 ml addition, followed by whatever brewersfriend calculates as needed for my cell count (usually about a litre). I figure 1 billion cells in the bottle initially, and about 5 billion after the first feeding.

 

[ColoHox]

I meant to post this earlier in the week but forgot about the thread. I have had the best results in bottle conditioning by pouring 30ml of ~1.035 wort into a single bottle. From there it goes on a stirplate with a 150 ml addition, followed by whatever brewersfriend calculates as needed for my cell count (usually about a litre). I figure 1 billion cells in the bottle initially, and about 5 billion after the first feeding.

30ml to 150ml steps seem like a good idea. Although, I think 1 billion cells in the bottle initially is a huge overestimation. I have seen numbers more in the range of 1 million cells/liter in most commercial beers. Even then, the viability can be anywhere between 1% and ~50% in most cases.

 

[rockdemon]

30ml to 150ml steps seem like a good idea. Although, I think 1 billion cells in the bottle initially is a huge overestimation. I have seen numbers more in the range of 1 million cells/liter in most commercial beers. Even then, the viability can be anywhere between 1% and ~50% in most cases.

I added more wort this morning. About 0.5 liters, gravity was 1040. I can see a nice layer of white stuff on top of the botton stuff. It looks like much more yeast than i used for my double that fermented from 1070 to 1009 in a week. Im very optimistic right now. It has a nice sweet yesst smell aswell