Half glass of foam UNLESS I purge keg first

[wookiemofo]

PSI set at about 11-12 for a set and forget on two kegs. Both kegs have been pouring about half to a third glass of foam, knocking the carbonation out and giving me flat beer. Only two things have changed, I added a second keg to the setup and I added a big heavy tap handle.

If I purge the keg then pour it's fine. Any idea what this means? Is my serving pressure to high? If I drop it won't my carb vols drop?

It was pouring fine when I first tapped the kegs but they were a bit under carbed. Standard two keg setup from keg connection which I think is 5 or 6 feet lines.

Help is greatly appreciated! Thanks

 

[heferly]

My guess is your line length, should be closer to 7-10' check out line balancing, should answer some questions

 

[scottland]

It means your lines are not providing enough resistance. 5-6feet is not enough for 12PSI.

Get 10' of line for each tap, or do this:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/cure-your-short-hose-troubles-100151/

 

[wookiemofo]

Any particular reason why the first keg I had connected poured fine? Same psi?

 

[heferly]

Probably not fully carbed up, how long was it on gas?

Read through that link, crunch some numbers...i bet you end up with closer to 8' needed

 

[wookiemofo]

When I got the new tap handlers I ribbed nut that the handle is attached to a ton of times thinking it would tighten the friction, I was worried the handle would open on it's own since it's heavy... Perlick 525's, could that be a cause

 

[wookiemofo]

Been on gas since march madness started!

I'll check out the balancing

 

[heferly]

Shouldnt matter...i think you can twist the ball in the seat, but i dont think its uni-directional

 

[bob1852]

What temp are you at?

http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

 

[wookiemofo]

44 degrees at 13 psi

It's possible that when I initially carbed over a month ago that my temp was high 30's. I raised the fridge temp maybe two weeks ago

 

[wookiemofo]

Why would it pour fine when i purge essentially reducing serving pressure?

 

[heferly]

Why would it pour fine when i purge essentially reducing serving pressure?

Not enough line to provide resistance at serving pressure..good news is, bev line is cheap!

 

[wookiemofo]

Might try those dip tube inserts, I read about those awhile back. Would sure save some mess inside my fridge!

 

[Changeduser123]

44 degrees at 13 psi

It's possible that when I initially carbed over a month ago that my temp was high 30's. I raised the fridge temp maybe two weeks ago

I am new to kegging so someone will need to confirm this, but the way you describe it, it looks like the CO2 is going out of solution because of the temperature raise. This increases the pressure in your kegs, which ends up higher than you serving pressure. You cannot read this pressure on your regulator because you probably have a checkvalve somewhere. This is why you need to purge (= release the pressure).

 

[heferly]

Might try those dip tube inserts, I read about those awhile back. Would sure save some mess inside my fridge!

Thats an option thats worked for a lot of people, but i still suggest to do it 'right' the first time

Reason i balanced was the thought of dryhopping in the keg down the line..i'd rather less chances of clogging, and less cleaning.

 

[heferly]

I am new to kegging so someone will need to confirm this, but the way you describe it, it looks like the CO2 is going out of solution because of the temperature raise. This increases the pressure in your kegs, which ends up higher than you serving pressure. You cannot read this pressure on your regulator because you probably have a checkvalve somewhere. This is why you need to purge (= release the pressure).

This is also a possibility, but i'd bet on too short lines. 5' is pretty short for 13 psi...mines at 7.5' at 40 deg, 13 psi..perfect pours

I think by dropping it as you have, you've been gradually degassing the beer closer to equilibrium

 

[wookiemofo]

so out of curiosity, why does kegconnection sell thier kits with rather short lines?

 

[heferly]

Most sell with 5', couldn't tell you why. Even when you buy a kegerator, they tend to come with only 5'. I'd also suggest 3/16" lines, if you go that route

 

[wookiemofo]

also just checked again, the thermometer has evened out at 37. I placed it in shortly before my first reading and it has a slow reaction time. That puts me at 2.71 and in the yellow... is it possible the higher volumes in addition to shorter lines and 13psi is causing it?

I feel like the last time I ran my first keg with perfect pours, i was at about 37 and 11 psi.

 

[wookiemofo]

Sorry for cross posting here, i should take a minute and collect all my thoughts!

Any caution to going longer lines if not needed? I think 7.5' sounds good, it's a standard fridge with taps at about keg level.

Also, what's your logic behind less clogging/cleaning when you hop in the keg? I plan on doing the same at some point.

 

[heferly]

Best way to figure it out is crunching the numbers in that link, based on your s

 

[heferly]

..serving psi and length, which psi depends on temp and co2 vols you have.

Mine happened out to be around 7', so i ordered 15' to be safe (2 kegs, 7.5' each)

Hop sediment is inevitable with hopping in the keg. That insert sits in the out dip tube, so sediment could get stuck in there.

 

[wookiemofo]

ah that makes sense.

Do you have the link with the calculations? I wasn't seeing it in this thread... must be blind.

 

[heferly]

here's a good one...i think this is what i was using.

haven't read through that earlier link...guess that just highlights the dip tube insert

 

[wookiemofo]

So here is what I have:

37 degrees
height from middle of keg to tap is 11"
distance from liquid out to shanks is 20"
Desired Vols 2.5

Im getting 10.5 PSI and 46" line length.

I dropped my psi down to test this.

On a side note, I just noticed bubbles in both my beer lines. I did a quick test... poured 1/3 a beer, dumped the foam. Poured again... perfect.

What's that mean?

 

[heferly]

co2 is coming out of solution in the lines...mine did this when my lines were warmer than the beer in the keg. many people (including myself) have added small pc fans to circulate air in the fridge.

if you drop your pressure, you're going to have to de-gas your beer a little...take it off the gas for a day or so, pulling the pressure release every once in awhile. it's a pain, but you should periodically check the carbonation by hooking up your gas at your new psi (10.5), let it sit a bit, then pour yourself a sample.

de-gassing sucks, which is why bobby_m has his thread recommending the set it and forget it...you just happened to fall prey to short lines :cross:

 

[wookiemofo]

So l

 

[wookiemofo]

So bottom line longer lines would still be smart, and add a Pc fan.

 

[heferly]

if you're good with sticking with 37 deg, and 2.5 vols co2, your lines are fine...you're overcarbed in your keg right now, cause you were at 13 or so.

if it were me, i'd at some point get longer lines, just to have some insurance (can always cut more off...and i prefer a little warmer beer now). i wouldn't worry about the pc fan until you get your system down...it usually only effects the first 4 oz or so. even then, it's drinkable

 

[cgondoli1]

If you want to save some cash look in to the mixers from the short hose trouble thread. i had the same problem until i added these to my shanks and problem solved. i also added a fan. I got my mixers from a pack of lock-tight at blowe's. I now have 2.5 ft hoses in my mini fridge kegerator.

 

[heferly]

If you want to save some cash look in to the mixers from the short hose trouble thread. i had the same problem until i added these to my shanks and problem solved. i also added a fan. I got my mixers from a pack of lock-tight at blowe's. I now have 2.5 ft hoses in my mini fridge kegerator.

Both ways will work, all preference!