Growing hops from seed

[Apimyces]

Alright, I'll try that. Just seems weird that everything looked fine and then just suddenly stopped.

 

[yanick74]

Hello, I share my project of hops in Yucatan, for 2 years I am making, it is about a little more than 1000 plants all from seed, 21 genotypes from 10 different countries, 2 months ago I was able to get rhizomes from cascade, centennial y Mount Hood.

At this moment I am making several crosses. The last photo is interesting because it is a female plant coming from some seeds found in cascade cones, these began their stratification on February 23 this year, were planted 15 days later and today began to bloom , these are the I want to hybridize with a male from Poloni.

2 months ago a friend of this forum gave me some rizomes from Neomexicana but unfortunately they did not manage to survive such a long trip, if someone has some seeds of Neomexicana in the next season that wants to trade, I would appreciate it very much, since this species me It brings crazy but I still have not been able to access a plant.:rockin:

 

[Apimyces]

Nice, Yanick.

So say my male has nutrient issues, either toxicity or lack. What would the most likely culprits be? And the solution?

 

[Apimyces]

Well, I didn't take the time to do the leaf test for DM yet, but I did give my plants some Miracle Grow and some ammonium sulfate. They are looking better already. I'm starting to think that it was indeed nutrient-based. Had some leaves that were so pale they were transparent, but they all seem to be greening now.

Now that I think of it, growth probably started getting stunted when I stopped having time to tend after them, and thus ceased fertilizing them. The soil analysis said there was plenty of P-K and most other micro-nutrients, but some might not be available and it wasn't getting any more N. The soil is probably poorer there than on my analysis, too, because it's about a foot or two above the soy field (which itself is about 3 feet away), so I'm guessing all the rainwater that hits the soil there, and the garage's wall, then leeches nutrients away to the soy field below.

Lots of floral buds on that male, anyways. My Brewer's Gold has started flowering too. Very small flowers, though, not sure if the flowers will end up growing of if that's it.

 

[Apimyces]

Boadicea F1s. Sown in April, I believe. Starting to get some sunlight for the first time.

 

[PapaBearJay]

Sorry mate, none of those are dwarves.

 

[Apimyces]

A pity. I'll have to cross them back to each other then.

I thought you (or someone else) said we couldn't tell before much longer? They weren't under very bright light, could be some etiolation going on in there. 4 t8s for a 2 foot deep table, about 3 feet over it. No professional setup but I made it on the cheap and I get fairly good results from it. I don't remember what photoperiod I give but its springtime photoperiod.

 

[Apimyces]

For the male, I'll revise my statement to say it was probably both a fertilizer and disease issue. Here's a pic from today, pretty representative of what I'm seeing. There's some other plants I suspect that were also affected by both, many which I think was just fertilizer. This male is apparently at least moderately susceptible to DM, and it has a been a very wet season, with rain nearly every day, and sub-average temperatures.

 

[PapaBearJay]

For the male, I'll revise my statement to say it was probably both a fertilizer and disease issue. Here's a pic from today, pretty representative of what I'm seeing. There's some other plants I suspect that were also affected by both, many which I think was just fertilizer. This male is apparently at least moderately susceptible to DM, and it has a been a very wet season, with rain nearly every day, and sub-average temperatures.

That looks more like potato leafhopper damage than DM. Check the undersides for insects!

 

[PapaBearJay]

A pity. I'll have to cross them back to each other then.



I thought you (or someone else) said we couldn't tell before much longer? They weren't under very bright light, could be some etiolation going on in there. 4 t8s for a 2 foot deep table, about 3 feet over it. No professional setup but I made it on the cheap and I get fairly good results from it. I don't remember what photoperiod I give but its springtime photoperiod.

I'll revise my statement as well. Height in a greenhouse setting is likely correlated to a field setting. You're internode spacing on most plants looks to be a couple of inches, no? If you can, I would devise a small experiment and determine which plant(s) have the smallest internode spacing. Then use that one to cross back onto one of its parents.

 

[Apimyces]

That looks more like potato leafhopper damage than DM. Check the undersides for insects!

I actually did that a earlier today. Found... earwigs. Under pretty much all damaged leaves. Could they be the cause of this? Never really thought earwigs were pests. Seems like there's quite a lot of them around my house (lots creeping in the corners of my hives, at most sites I find ants there, not earwigs).

I do see leafhoppers in the grass around them. Haven't noticed them on the actual plants yet, though.

Also spotted that hell-born caterpillar once (on another plant), but that was a while back.

I've got some Glacier and Perle plants that have like 0.5" internodes. I tend to just use whatever I have lying around, which can give variable results, I'm mostly dismissing any results I get this year as non-standard anyways.

Next year, I'll measure internode length on those Boadicea F1s, and breed from the shortests.

 

[Apimyces]

Correction: i sometimes see grasshoppers, never saw a leaf hopper. Will look for them now that I know what they look like.

I read they also attack young maples. My silver maple seedling does display similar symptoms.

 

[Apimyces]

Seems like lots of unidentified leaf hoppers hang around my asymptomatic potted plants, haven't yet noticed them near the plants that have leaf necrosis.

 

[PapaBearJay]

Hmmm, new victims?

 

[Apimyces]

Possibly not yet symptomatic, but when I move their leaves I see a lot of little insects jumping around, they look like white leafhoppers (different species? Younger specimen?). Hard to get a good look at them, too quick. I have never observed this on the older plants, the ones that do show necrosis. Those plants aren't at the same spot, though my property isn't really all that big, half an acre I think. But given that earwigs are omnivorous and known to eat plant matter, and that I see them under most curled leaves, I'm highly suspecting they are the cause of the necrosis.

I'll be following the development of the smaller plants, though. Got them early enough in the season, but didn't have room for them so I just put them in half-gallon pots (untrained) 'till recently. Their stunted growth is probably related to pot size, substrate and general neglect (Glacier, Perle, and Sorachi Ace).

To note, I'm not even sure we get potato leafhoppers around here. They don't overwinter anywhere near here. They do migrate to southern Canada every season, but not sure how far North they do. What I think I saw were the white apple leafhoppers, who seem way less harmful, and do overwinter here from what I gather.

 

[Apimyces]

Getting more and more of these.

 

[Apimyces]

Bought seeds from a seed supplier a few years back, didn't have any plants yet and wanted to get try it out.

First year one of them actually flowers. IT'S A GIRL! Haha. Its siblings haven't shown their sex yet.

Unknown pedigree. Smells good, though.

 

[PapaBearJay]

I have several females that need to be harvested, especially now that powdery mildew has come through and affected the cones.

 

[Apimyces]

Seeds from "just right" vs "overripe" cones. Anyone else notice this difference? I don't have enough to say I've got a good sample size, but all the seeds I collected today from my dark and dry cones were HUGE compared to what I'm used to, either from seed packets, whole leaf hop cone packets, or seeds harvested earlier in the season.

Saazer x OP (large) vs First Gold x OP (regular)

Edit: quality is atrocious, but I can't get my cell to focus on such small things. My apologies.

 

[PapaBearJay]

Seeds from "just right" vs "overripe" cones. Anyone else notice this difference? I don't have enough to say I've got a good sample size, but all the seeds I collected today from my dark and dry cones were HUGE compared to what I'm used to, either from seed packets, whole leaf hop cone packets, or seeds harvested earlier in the season.

Saazer x OP (large) vs First Gold x OP (regular)

Edit: quality is atrocious, but I can't get my cell to focus on such small things. My apologies.

Just so you know, seed size can vary greatly between plant genotypes. Yes, there may be size differences between ripe and unripe seed, but there are likely far larger differences between cultivars/genotypes.

 

[nagmay]

Hello everyone! It's been a while since I've posted an update on my hop breeding program, so here goes... For now, I've stopped germinating new crosses to focus on narrowing down the ones I have.

Generation 1: Started in 2013

• 1000ish seeds collected
• 150ish plants germinated
• 42 healthy, high producing, female plants selected
• 8 contenders selected based on taste tests.
• Each of the contenders was cloned (we now have a row of each)
• Data from the 2017 harvest will be in the next post

Generation 2: Started in 2015

• Select pollen from generation 1 was used
• 3000ish seeds collected
• 1500ish sprouts (I learned some germination tricks)
• 350 healthy plants are currently in a 2nd yard awaiting further testing

 

[DarkCoder]

Hello everyone! It's been a while since I've posted an update on my hop breeding program, so here goes... For now, I've stopped germinating new crosses to focus on narrowing down the ones I have.

Generation 1: Started in 2013

• 1000ish seeds collected
• 150ish plants germinated
• 42 healthy, high producing, female plants selected
• 8 contenders selected based on taste tests.
• Each of the contenders was cloned (we now have a row of each)
• Data from the 2017 harvest will be in the next post

Generation 2: Started in 2015

• Select pollen from generation 1 was used
• 3000ish seeds collected
• 1500ish sprouts (I learned some germination tricks)
• 350 healthy plants are currently in a 2nd yard awaiting further testing

Great work Guru !

 

[nagmay]

Data from the 2017 harvest. Alpha/beta testing was done by Alpha Analytics.

The flavor notes are from an initial taste test with a handful of participants. The next step is to brew some full size smash beers and get more tastebuds involved

NHB021

• Cone size: 3.25 – 4.5″
• Flavor: Clean, strong, very bitter
• Alpha: 14.3 Beta: 3.5

NHB025

• Cone size: 2.25 – 2.5″
• Flavor: Cedar, cinnamon, black pepper
• Alpha: 6.8 Beta: 1.8

NHB042

• Cone size: 2″ (very consistent!)
• Flavor: Clean, lemon, stone fruit
• Alpha: 6.6 Beta: 2.3

NHB049

• Cone size: 2.75 – 3.25″
• Flavor: Clove, lavender
• Alpha: 14.4 Beta: 5.0

NHB067

• Cone size: 2 – 2.25″
• Flavor: Vanilla, caramel, oak
• Alpha: 9.0 Beta: 3.8

NHB107

• Cone size: 1.25 – 1.75″
• Flavor: Cedar, cinnamon, very floral
• Alpha: 5.3 Beta: 2.0

NHB115

• Cone size: 3 -3.25″
  
• Flavor: Rosemary, black pepper
• Alpha: 7.4 Beta: 2.3

NHB116

• Cone size: 1.25 – 1.5″
  
• Flavor: Clean, spice, melon, honey suckle
• Alpha: 3.2 Beta: 3.2

 

[Apimyces]

Nice.

 

[PapaBearJay]

I agree, except what does yield look like? Oil profiles?

 

[nagmay]

...what does yield look like?

Two years back we selected based on plant health and vigor (including yield). This harvest, the production remained strong for the selected plants. However, consider the fact that we are currently running 16' poles in the yard. A higher trellis would probably do better.

Average per plant (dried):

• NHB021 - 18.7oz
• NHB025 - 27.1oz
• NHB042 - 13.9oz
• NHB049 - 14.2oz
• NHB067 - 11.6oz
• NHB107 - 25.6oz
• NHB115 - 10.1oz
• NHB116 - 11.6oz

Oil profiles?

I couldn't throw down the cash at this point to get the full profile. Settling for the alpha/beta for now. If we can pick 1-2 "winners" this year, oil profiles are the future for those.

 

[Texconsinite]

One the oils, The lavender flavor on the 049 could indicate a high linalool content, like Northern Discovery hops.

https://growlermag.com/wisconsins-northern-discovery-and-the-importance-of-wild-hops/

 

[Apimyces]

Two years back we selected based on plant health and vigor (including yield). This harvest, the production remained strong for the selected plants. However, consider the fact that we are currently running 16' poles in the yard. A higher trellis would probably do better.

Average per plant (dried):

• NHB021 - 18.7oz
• NHB025 - 27.1oz
• NHB042 - 13.9oz
• NHB049 - 14.2oz
• NHB067 - 11.6oz
• NHB107 - 25.6oz
• NHB115 - 10.1oz
• NHB116 - 11.6oz

I couldn't throw down the cash at this point to get the full profile. Settling for the alpha/beta for now. If we can pick 1-2 "winners" this year, oil profiles are the future for those.

Seeded or seedless?

 

[nagmay]

Seeded or seedless?

Sinsemilla, of course

Culling all the males out of the yard was one of the earliest tasks. We did keep some males in the 2nd generation yard, so I haven't bothered calculating those numbers yet.

 

[nagmay]

Someone asked (off this thread) about cone size vs total production. In other words: "do bigger cones correlate to more dried weight per plant"

At least in this yard, I have not seen evidence of this. NHB107, for instance, has smaller cones - but puts out a tons of them.

Here's a chart of ave cone length (x) vs total dry weight (y) for the yard prior to the last culling. Blue dots are what we are running with:

 

[Texconsinite]

Which parent plants seemed to yield the most fruitful offspring. Any Neomex-hybrids make the cut?

 

[nagmay]

Which parent plants seemed to yield the most fruitful offspring. Any Neomex-hybrids make the cut?

If we're talking yield alone, the crosses were all over the board. From the remaining selections, many have some Chinook. However, there were also huge amounts produced by Nugget, Galena, and other crosses - they just didn't pass the taste tests.

I will say that there was one cross, Nugget x a wild hop from Wyoming, that seemed to produce offspring with consistently huge cones. Unfortunately, most of them didn't taste great and didn't make the final selection. The two that I still have NHB107 & NHB115 actually produce cones on the smaller end of the scale compared to their sisters (but they taste great).

 

[marc_]

I just read the entire thread... Any updates for 2018?

Keep up the great work!

And, you've peaked my curiosity - anyone know of where i can track down an interesting male rhizome in Canada? I'm tempted to start playing around with some crosses (i currently have cashmere, centennial & neo1).

Cheers!

 

[Apimyces]

I'm still interested in seeds from the biggest cone producers, Nagmay. I don't recall where we left off.

I'm still waiting for this year's harvest, which I expect to be in october. My main male just finished shedding his pollen, but many of my females have only started flowering recently or have not yet started. I've got a second male that's readying up to pick off, though, but he's not as mature.

Lots of seeds forming already, though. They just aren't ripe yet.

 

[DarkCoder]

Uncategorizable...


Males flowers.... then burrs at the tips !

 

[B-Hoppy]

I just ripped a freak like that out last week. Over time, it seems like the males end up showing before the ladies as I've yanked about a dozen males out so far this year.

 

[DarkCoder]

I just ripped a freak like that out last week. Over time, it seems like the males end up showing before the ladies as I've yanked about a dozen males out so far this year.

Misandrist...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

It's not sexism if they're bloody useless...



[very excited to get several seedlings from dried Ernest cones emerging in the last few weeks]

 

[Apimyces]

Uncategorizable...


Males flowers.... then burrs at the tips !

Sounds like an XXY triploid.

 

[B-Hoppy]

Misandrist...

Variety is the spice of life, but I've got about 5 stallions currently and it's difficult to learn what each one brings to the table unless you do a few crosses and observe what the kids are like. I only have the resources to do a respectable job managing the seedlings from one male per year so I'm not keeping any more males unless they glow in the dark or something really cool like that, lol.