Grape wine without adding yeast and chemicals

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DesertBoy

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I have just put the grape into the bucket after crushing it, i didnt add yeast, just few amount of sugar. It fermented for one week, then i turned it into 6L plastic bottle.
I closed it tightly,
when I open the bottle i didnt notice air

it tastes little sweet. now the second week is finished
should I add yeast to the juice now or too late ?
or it will be fine by the time


my chronic problem is the high temp "about 36C".
thanks
 
Yes that temp is quite high, you could certainly try adding yeast and finding a way to keep it cool maybe with an ice bath.
 
estricklin said:
Yes that temp is quite high, you could certainly try adding yeast and finding a way to keep it cool maybe with an ice bath.
Click to expand...

thanks estricklin,
I forgot to say: after the first week i put it inside the refrigerator
adjust the temp to the medium
 
Was not adding yeast a calculated move or a forgetful one? I do think you need to keep the bottles cooler.
 
I think what he means is he intended to let his wine spontaneously ferment. Wild yeast is a tricky way too make wine, I would practice making it with cultured yeast before you get into Spontaneous. Also you really need to be actually measuring the temperature of the must instead of just setting it too medium and hoping it starts going. With wild yeast you really need to encourage it too populate by leaving it on the warm side of things.(36C is hot not warm) After it gets going you can cool it down. With cultured yeast you can pitch directly too a cold must because its population is already high and it doesn't matter.
 
Hello said:
Neat. I didn't know you could really do that.
Click to expand...

in the first week it went good, smell and bubbles and foam in the top of the must.
but after i took the juice out from the must i feel there is nothing happen
no foam or bubbles, no CO2 coming out from the juice, the fermentation not finished ..
yesterday i add bread yeast to the juice
something happens for few seconds then it calms again
 
Honda88 said:
With wild yeast you really need to encourage it too populate by leaving it on the warm side of things.(36C is hot not warm) After it gets going you can cool it down. With cultured yeast you can pitch directly too a cold must because its population is already high and it doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

Hello Honda
36C is outside temp, inside room Definitely its lower
this is my first attempt to let wine make itself
i need to know what is my mistake, and how can i fix it
putting the must in warm place, then cooling it inside the refrig.
exactly that what is happened

thanks
 
Honda88 said:
I think what he means is he intended to let his wine spontaneously ferment. Wild yeast is a tricky way too make wine, I would practice making it with cultured yeast before you get into Spontaneous. Also you really need to be actually measuring the temperature of the must instead of just setting it too medium and hoping it starts going. With wild yeast you really need to encourage it too populate by leaving it on the warm side of things.(36C is hot not warm) After it gets going you can cool it down. With cultured yeast you can pitch directly too a cold must because its population is already high and it doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

People have been making wine forever without adding yeast. It's not spontaneous, it's the natural way of doing it. My parents and grandparents have been making wine this way for generations and there is nothing tricky about it.
 
Making wine the old fashioned way is fine, and you are right, it has been done for thousands of years, a few issues can be:
-Limited shelf life, I've had a buddies wine numerous times, it is great, but if we don't finish the bottle relatively fast, it spoils fast.
-Impossible to recreate a great batch, you get what you get with wild yeast, good , bad, or indifferent.
-Potential of a "bad" wild yeast, or even worse, a "bad" Malolactic Bacteria populating your winery area, no matter how well you scrub and sanitize, once it is resident, it is near impossible to eradicate.

There have been countless improvements in wine making since the good ole days, and there are plenty of reasons, there is so much more control and so much more improved shelf life using today's minimum techniques, you don't need to dump chemicals into the wine, I only add just the minimal amount of metabisulfite to stabilize my wines, I've watched my buddy dump more gallons of spoiled wine down the drain than I care to list, after a while it becomes an expensive grape draino.
 
hello ,
bramptonbrewer, pumpkinman
i got my all knowledge about wine from this forum and youtube, i hd never seen someone made wine, so i have to try with this theoretical knowledge. my first batch went nasty, the second could be called bad, and with lack of appropriate tools and kits i can say iv gained good information about making wine.
regarding the natural wine, i saw on youtube an old man made wine using wild yeast, he didnt add any chemicals, he didnt even wash the grapes, finally he made very great wine, he aged it up to 2 yrs as he said, i liked his method and his confidence.
 
DesertBoy said:
hello ,
bramptonbrewer, pumpkinman
i got my all knowledge about wine from this forum and youtube, i hd never seen someone made wine, so i have to try with this theoretical knowledge. my first batch went nasty, the second could be called bad, and with lack of appropriate tools and kits i can say iv gained good information about making wine.
regarding the natural wine, i saw on youtube an old man made wine using wild yeast, he didnt add any chemicals, he didnt even wash the grapes, finally he made very great wine, he aged it up to 2 yrs as he said, i liked his method and his confidence.
Click to expand...

Desert Boy, there is a reason he is confident in his methods. It's because he is using methods and recipes that were handed down from one generation to another. Despite what some people are saying about wild yeast, there are many people who just don't want any chemicals in their wine and I am one of those people. To each his own. Live and let live.
 
bramptonbrewer,
I can respect that, there is nothing wrong with making wine like that, I'm simply stating that you cannot duplicate a batch, and that it will spoil faster than wine that is stabilized.
Yeast isn't a chemical, and to be honest, sulfur is produced naturally during the fermentation/wine making process.
 
Pumpkinman2012
You also talk about your buddy losing batch after batch of wine, yet I'm 45 yrs old and in all the years my dad and uncles were making wine I have never seen any of them dump a batch. And between the 5 families, they made 250 gallons a year. Is it that they are just lucky? Or is your buddy unlucky? There is more to wine than the ingredients. It's true that to make great wine you must first start with great ingredients. But if your methods are incorrect or sloppy even great ingredients won't help you.
 
Bramptonbrewer,
You are correct, his methods were sloppy, it's not that he lost batches during the wine making process, the problem was when he opened bottles of wine that were over a yr old, they were all oxidized. Once he learned how to improve his wine making skills, and started to make wine with a cleanliness and sanitize everything mentality, he hasn't dumped a bottle.
Wine that has been stabilized goes a long way.
 
When I make wine. It won't even go into bottles for about 6-8 months. And I won't drink it for at least a couple of months from there. I make enough to last me a year so that I can age a batch while I drink the last one. I have only run out of wine before the year is up a couple of times.
 
It's feral yeast. It's lovely to think the natural and old world wineries are fermenting with indigenous yeasts, but if you've used basically anything from Lalvin that's what's fermenting your wine. And if you have barrels that weren't bought new from the cooper (Who has $1,200 laying around) You're fermenting with what the last guy used.

While feral and very rarely natural ferments are certainly interesting they open up a door for nasty Brett and other microbial infections which strip fruit flavors and produce lots of generally nasty aromas.

Ozone, caustics, and steam can't irradiate yeast from a barrel, don't think SO2 or StarSan can.
 
pumpkinman2012 said:
-Limited shelf life, I've had a buddies wine numerous times, it is great, but if we don't finish the bottle relatively fast, it spoils fast.
Click to expand...

Shelf life only refers to unopened things. And when you open a bottle of wine, you finish it - I don't understand the problem.
 
bramptonbrewer said:
It's because he is using methods and recipes that were handed down from one generation to another. Despite what some people are saying about wild yeast, there are many people who just don't want any chemicals in their wine and I am one of those people. To each his own. Live and let live.
Click to expand...

it seems like this

I dont refuse chemical at all, especially in my case, hot weather helps unwanted germs to exist in wine, so chemical is helpful, but it is not available in the local market.
I have to follow the old way, i saw this old man doing it naturally.
 
You can, and you will probably make a good wine, I always try to approach answering any wine related questions with trying to give the best answers that I know how, I hate to see a new wine maker end up with a less than great wine, this usually leads to them not trying to make wine again.
Keep us updated.
 
pumpkinman2012 said:
You can, and you will probably make a good wine, I always try to approach answering any wine related questions with trying to give the best answers that I know how, I hate to see a new wine maker end up with a less than great wine, this usually leads to them not trying to make wine again.
Keep us updated.
Click to expand...

I will. Thank you. I do appreciate the answer. I figured that my first wine wouldn't be awesome, but I won't be completely discouraged by a total failure either. I'm learning. Heck, I usually learn the hard way in most things in life. :)

One other question: Are there any household substitutes to yeast nutrients and energizers? I read here that you can use tea for the tannins and gelatin for the pectic enzymes. I'm not really concerned about clarity, but would tea be a necessary substitute for tannins in a basic grape wine? Banana peel for yeast nutrients?
 
I don't have any experience in tannin or nutrient substitutions, may I ask where are you located? If you are near, I'd be happy to give you tannin and yeast nutrients.
 
pumpkinman2012 said:
I don't have any experience in tannin or nutrient substitutions, may I ask where are you located? If you are near, I'd be happy to give you tannin and yeast nutrients.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the offer. I see by your location you are in New York. I am actually about as far as one can get from there. I am in Sonora MX. I would love to trade you by mail though. I could send you some Mexican Dates, Prickly pear cacti fruit or something that would be very hardy in the mail for your fruit wine making. Both of these ship fine in the mail and make excellent wines. Or I could trade you a bottle of jabuticaba wine.
 
WoW! I guess that you are a distance away! I'd really like to trade! If it is a hassle to mail, just let me know and I'll send you tannin and yeast nutrients regardless, message me your full name and address and I'll make sure that I get it in the mail.
 

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