Grainy malt taste

[NewkyBrown]

I’m trying to brew a malty beer (an amber ale or even a low hopped American Pale ale) with a very grainy taste. I’ve tried various malts in previous recipes but can’t achieve what I want. I’m thinking of a beer like the wort straight-out-of-the-mash-tun grainy taste.

If anyone understands what I mean, haha, then what type of malts would you suggest? Also any favorite yeasts that might help?

Cheers...

 

[schematix]

http://www.********************/

makes all the difference. little more work but wouldn't do it any other way now.

 

[ba-brewer]

Might be helpful to list the malts you have already tried. Do you really mean grainy like raw cereal or a fresh malt flavor?

Rahr 2row, GW superior Pilsner, and crisp chevalier all have a raw cereal grainy flavor to me.

 

[GuldTuborg]

If straight out of the mash tun taste is what you want, you can ferment just that, no boil, provided your mash out and sparge steps are sufficiently hot and long enough to pasteurize the wort.

 

[Robert65]

http://www.********************/

makes all the difference. little more work but wouldn't do it any other way now.

This.

 

[beersk]

Thinking you need some Vienna malt. You can get grainy without low oxygen brewing although low oxygen doesn't hurt. I've been doing low o2 since mid 2016 and I've never felt it's given me a specifically grainy beer. I did a side-by-side on one and, while both beers were good, the low o2 one wasn't night and day better. And at that point I had been doing it for a while. And I'm meticulous. But, it does make a slightly better beer. It makes a slightly fuller maltier beer. But, even in all the lovely German beers I drink, NONE of them I would describe as grainy. Rich, malty (almost like the malt flavor you get in malted milk balls)...but never GRAINY as such. That comes from specific kinds of grains like Vienna and other such grains.

 

[Robert65]

And limiting the thermal stress on the wort, by conducting a gentle and relatively short boil, will help immensely to preserve fresh malt flavors, no matter how much or little you are able to limit oxidation on the hot side. The degree to which this helps can be surprising.

 

[eagle23]

Also, look at whats in your malt. A lot of big maltsters use a blend if different barley varaites to get kind of a general malty flavor when they malt it. Try looking to see if there are any craft maltsters in your area, some of them use a specific type of barley or whatever grain and it can lead to more specific flavors. Instead of flavor descriptions like "good malty flavor", you'll see things like " notes of honey or graham cracker".

 

[NewkyBrown]

Thanks for the replies. I’ve tried all the usual suspects... Munich, Vienna, victory, biscuit but never get that strong malt/ grain taste.

I’ll take a look into the low oxygen brewing. I had no idea it made a lot of difference.
Maybe I need to find a better source of quality grains. There are some new malting companies nearby that I could check out.

 

[ba-brewer]

Someone else searching for maltiness
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/discussion-on-malty-german-beers.658060/

 

[fastengine]

My maltiest beer was done with a decoction mash. I don't do it much but because it is such a pain but it did give me my best German pils. to date. Also it was Avangard Pilsner malt if that made a difference.

 

[madscientist451]

I've noticed I get a maltier, more grainy result when I use European (continental) malts. Perhaps its BS, I don't know, but trying different malts is part of the fun of home brewing.
Many of the European maltsters use very specific barley varieties and/or malting processes.
There's nothing wrong with Canadian or US barley malt, but there are differences in choice of barley varieties and malting methods.
Give Schill Cologne Kolsh malt a try.
https://www.homebrewing.org/Schill-...MIzK2C0qe55wIVCZSzCh1nrwz_EAQYASABEgI3lfD_BwE

Or maybe Weyermann floor malted or their Barke brand malts.
Franco-Belges or Viking are other brands worth trying.
For UK malts, Golden Promise is a favorite of many and if you haven't done a 100% Marris Otter beer yet, now is a good time to try it.
Back in the USA, play around with percentages of 6-row malt or some of the special malts Briess makes for more malty taste. Or try some specialty malts from the smaller malt-houses that have appeared in the last few years.

 

[bracconiere]

@Qhrumphf this isn't the one, but i know you've probably noticed HBT search leaves a bit to be desired......lol

has anyone tried to boil half, or hell apparently according to this thread, all of it to get that nice malty taste? after conversion of course......

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/why-do-we-sparge-with-hot-water.683948/#post-8958763
just mash as usual, then dump the whole damn mash tun back into the brew kettle, bring it to a simmer while stirring, then back into the mash tun for sparging?

i think the people with 'fancy' brew rigs could try it out easier then i'm going to have to! all i got is a kettle and cooler, so this is going to take some logistics for me....


edit and LOL, and no need to worry about heating your sparge water, something else i learned here! so maybe that's something else i'll test next batch!

 

[Qhrumphf]

The low oxygen fresh grain character and the decoction melanoidin character are quite different. Both have their place and neither replace the other. Decoction is easier to mimic (melanoidin malt does a decent job). No way to get that bran flakes/grape nuts character another way. Especially at home (easier at large scale where dedicated HLTs always at temp and simple geometry reduce hot side DO without needing a dedicate low DO process).

 

[bracconiere]

No way to get that bran flakes/grape nuts character another way

damn now you're making me drool....so that's melanoidin malt? or LoDo? i either need to learn how to make melanoidin malt, or stop making fun of lodo.....because grape nuts is what i want in my breakfast! it'll the be drink of champions!

yeah i'm goofing off, but serious....the thread was abonded anyway

edit: i've gotten my idea of malty, the taste like the grain smells right after milling, on acident only a few times...i really wish i could do it on purpose!

but in the thread about hot sparge water it should be ok to try to boil some % of mash, just to see if that's what i'm looking for? i'm thinking i'll mash as usual, while heating my sparge water, put my sparge water into my fermenter to pasturize it, then scoop out about half my mash into the BK, bring to a boil, then when my sparge water is down to temp put the boiled mash back into the mash tun and continue as usual....

 

[Qhrumphf]

Grape nuts/bran flaks is low oxygen. Melanoidin more the toasted bread crust "rich" maltiness.

Melanoidins are formed chemically between proteins, sugars, and heat. Their rate increases in an alkaline environment, which is why pretzels are historically basted with lye, though in a mash there are other considerations that outweigh that. But in making Belgian style candi syrup, some add DME and lye (to add protein and an alkaline environment) to their beet sugar to speed these reactions, as opposed to English invert where impure cane sugar and strict heat form complex reactions (after actual Inversion) over a much longer cooking time.

 

[bracconiere]

Grape nuts/bran flaks is low oxygen. Melanoidin more the toasted bread crust "rich" maltiness.

Melanoidins are formed chemically between proteins, sugars, and heat. Their rate increases in an alkaline environment, which is why pretzels are historically basted with lye, though in a mash there are other considerations that outweigh that. But in making Belgian style candi syrup, some add DME and lye (to add protein and an alkaline environment) to their beet sugar to speed these reactions, as opposed to English invert where impure cane sugar and strict heat form complex reactions (after actual Inversion) over a much longer cooking time.

i appreciate your time BTW...which one of those flavors would be closer to, not flavor but sense, sand? when i get the malty i'm looking for it's not like sweet where it's just smooth, it's like tingly.....yeah i know asking if nuts will make my mouth tingle is weird :LOL: but that's the problem i have with most of my brews their decent, but their too smooth, i want grit in the feel/taste.....