That's essentially where I'm at, if I use GF calcs I'm over by ~.5gal on a 60 min boil. Still makes great beer, just tying out these loose ends. I've adjusted my calc split with the majority impact on the sparge water. And have taken into consideration boil time. Next test is Sat morning in my brother's cold garage- high here is 41 & snow. Hmmm, isn't this why I have the GF too??! Might move inside and wave to those two in the snow!
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Thanks. I'll try that today with my pale ale. Honestly I only use the calculator to get a rough estimate of my sparge water and to get the mash thickness set for the grain father. With it set to 5.5gallons for the grain father calc, what are you targeting for fermenter volume and preboil volume (60/90min boil)? Grain father doesn't account for boil time which makes zero sense.
I think it accounts for boil time, but it just assumes 60 minute boils.
After doing a bunch of research I just decided to create my own brew day calculator for the Grainfather. I use their figures to get the mash water, but after that I use my excel spreadsheet to determine the rest. I hit my 5.5 gallon target (fermenter) exactly with 89% efficiency.
Will keep experimenting in the future, but this may be my last brew until Julyish.
That's what I did. I entered their formula from the user manual into a spreadsheet. It's simply a matter of inputting the total weight of your grain bill, and it outputs your mash and sparge water volumes.
I did the same and yes it does, however my experience is the water calcs from GF are too high. I'm leaning towards keeping the mash water figure as is (seems to work well for the recirc) and subtract about 1/2 gallon of the sparge water for an hour boil. For each 30 min longer boil I will subtract 1qt less, so that a 2hr boil (I haven't gone that long) would use what the GF results produce. Longer, could you imagine such a thing!!, I would add a qt/30 min. Might sound like I'm picking nits, but would like to hit the fermenter with what I plan in my recipe.
Moving my brew day to Sunday, apparently my brothers find a forecast of snow and 37 as a high not conducive to brewing. Poor outdoors folks, I'd just set up inside and wave to them!
Gotta love that feature of the GF! :rockin:I arrive at the same result, just slightly differently. The manual recommends an evaporation rate of 8-10% for the calculation. I found that using 8% for a 60 min boil and 10% for a 90 min boil gives me good results. YMMV.
I just got my GF and haven't used it yet but was wondering what the best place to go for the mash/Sparge conversions, I know some people use beersmith, some use the GF website and some use an excel spreadsheet. Planning on brewing the off the topper from northern Brewer as my first GF brew and don't want to mess it up too much as it will be my inaugural brew!
scallopking
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I use online calcs and finally got my Beersmith profile fairly accurate.
For starters, you will make great beer! I suggest using the GF calcs in the manual, and if you run a 60 minute boil drop 1/2g or bit less from the sparge water requirement, keep the mash figures as is. This assumes you tip the boiler when chilling/ transferring to the fermenter, so not much is left behind in the GF. Also check your recipe's efficiency as you will likely get near 75%+. You may want to adjust for this.
Congratulations! Six of one, half dozen of the other. The question is, which method would you be more comfortable with? Already a Beersmith user? Go that route. No? Can't beat the app for ease of use. Personally, I found it's simplicity too limiting. All three methods can give you good results if you're paying attention. You're gonna love your GF! You deserve a beer for being smart enough to buy one!
treacheroustexan
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Welcome! You will enjoy it. Nice being able to do 5 gallons, indoors, in 4 hours.
Traveling_brewer
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I had this problem when I started on the GrainFather. I got very low efficiency on 2 out of 3 batches. I realized the difference was the amount of wort above the top screen. The low batches I had the re-circulation valve closed about half way and the liquid was just above the screen. The batch with good efficiency the wort came right up to the overflow, with just a little going over (which is ok according to the GrainFather videos and instructions). When I let the value stay almost wide open, more liquid was able to pass through the grains. I was now getting about 75% efficiency. I've gotten higher in my last few batches. I'm not sure if the GrainCoat (which I didn't have in previous batches) is helping get it a little higher now.
The amount of recirc through the grain shouldn't have a material effect on eff, I'd think. Cooler mash tun has zero recirc and you can get similar eff. Maybe you changed your crush? Or your mash pH was better? A dark beer with roasted malts will be more acidic than a light colored beer and depending on water will impact efficiency, potentially to a significant degree in my experience.
Has anyone looked into upgrades for their heating elements?? I typically do 90 minute mashes and 90 boils. I'd like to cut my brew day down a little bit more, but it's taking about an hour to an hour and a half to sparge and get to boil.
Just made up my new sparge water pot. The element is 1500 watt stainless steel. Just used my old boil pot that is sitting idle.
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I think it's awesome when folks re-purpose stuff. And your HLT is no exception!
But I have to ask; why the plastic valve? Are you sure it's rated to handle 180-190 deg water? Even so, I'd be concerned it would only be a matter of time before it got broken...
The plastic valve is a John Guest fitting style I think. It came on my mash tun and HLT cooler I bought from these guys years ago. Not really sure what its rating is for hot water. I've had these cooler for 6 years and seem to work fine.
http://www.homebrewstuff.com/5-gallon-mash-tun-with-hlt-parts-kit.html
John Guest should be rated for high temp liquids (high enough for us anyway) and you already had it on hand. Again re-purposing at it's best!
Answers my question...
I going to try something different tomorrow when I brew. I have my old dome false bottom from my round cooler. It will slide down to the bottom and sit on top of the existing false bottom from the GrainFather. This test is my attempt at reducing the amount of grain in the boil.
I know the grain issue is not a big problem, I think. Was hoping to try reduce/eliminate as much as I can.
What do you guys think?
Jamie
I know the grain issue is not a big problem, I think. Was hoping to try reduce/eliminate as much as I can.
What do you guys think?
Jamie
I don't think I have noticed any grain in my boil before. Maybe you're milling too fine?
Traveling_brewer
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So you are saying recirculation has nothing to do with getting better efficiency? Then why would anyone bother? Of course it has something to do with it. A system with recirculation should get better efficiency then one without. If you are getting the same results you were getting in a cooler then you are doing something wrong.
Well I disagree. I think you may get slightly better efficiency but not materially better. I believe the advantage of recirc is for step mashes, including mash out, and clearer wort- whether or not that matters. I like the ability to do this and hold temps fairly well. I also believe the thinner mash the GF directs increases eff, but recirc, not so much. I've heard plenty high eff in cooler tuns, and was in mid 70's (brewhouse) myself. I also believe I've got the GF process down.
Traveling_brewer
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You can believe what you want. But recirculation leads to higher mash efficiency. This is well know. I'm actually in shock that someone is doubting this.
And you are talking brewhouse efficiency, not mash. Big difference.
I've wondered this myself. Since I switched from standard BIAB to a recirculating eBIAB my efficiency has not gone up. I'm still in the range of 80-85% brew house.
I think the increase in efficiency, or lack thereof, can vary from system to system, person to person, process to process. It all depends on what your starting point is and how good you were at extracting the sugars in your original method before switching to a recirculating eBIAB, Grainfather or other
Do you have anything I can read where someone compares circulating versus not circulating in at least a somewhat scientific manner? My experience I would not classify as scientific, but it does make me wonder if recirculating does anything other than facilitate temperature steps of the mash.
Exactly what I want to do! can you list the parts you used for the element? Thx in advance
https://www.graintoglass.ca/collect...products/1500-watt-stainless-steel-heat-stick
The link is for the element I'm using.
The link is for the element I'm using.
doogster
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Well - my session on the grainfather is in the books...and it was a long day. Part of it I attribute to learning the new system and how to be most efficient while brewing in my laundry room...Indoor brewing... a first for me!
During the mash I noticed quite a bit of wort going down the overflow pipe, and the fact that the work didn't seem to be getting clear (certianly not like any of the videos I've seen).
Then sparging was really slow... I spent over an hour sparging, and at one point I pulled up the top screen and cut a grid into the mash bed (a trick I read about in one of Gordon STrongs books). Now - having done a lot of all grain brewing with a cooler mash tun, I was used to taking my time with sparging... but didn't really expect that to be the case with the GF.
And I missed my expected gravity by 3 or 4 point (again, not expected... I was used to getting 80+ % with my cooler MT) I think I ended up around 75% today)
I suspect both "issues" are due to grain crush. My LHBS uses a Monster Mill, and he told me it was at .34 "maybe slightly less".
I just saw one other post regarding a Monster Mill, and it was set at something north of .40. Who else out there is milling with a Monster, and what are you finding gives you the best outcomes?
Finally - regarding the CFC... I expected great performance, but even though my tap water was 56 degrees, Wort went into the fermenter at 75. Any tips on water flow rates... full flow on cold? slow flow on hot wort? I think I was probably running my wort through too fast.
Good news is no pump clogs even though I just tossed the pellets into the boil, no bags, no spider. That worked fine.
Thanks for any tips!
During the mash I noticed quite a bit of wort going down the overflow pipe, and the fact that the work didn't seem to be getting clear (certianly not like any of the videos I've seen).
Then sparging was really slow... I spent over an hour sparging, and at one point I pulled up the top screen and cut a grid into the mash bed (a trick I read about in one of Gordon STrongs books). Now - having done a lot of all grain brewing with a cooler mash tun, I was used to taking my time with sparging... but didn't really expect that to be the case with the GF.
And I missed my expected gravity by 3 or 4 point (again, not expected... I was used to getting 80+ % with my cooler MT) I think I ended up around 75% today)
I suspect both "issues" are due to grain crush. My LHBS uses a Monster Mill, and he told me it was at .34 "maybe slightly less".
I just saw one other post regarding a Monster Mill, and it was set at something north of .40. Who else out there is milling with a Monster, and what are you finding gives you the best outcomes?
Finally - regarding the CFC... I expected great performance, but even though my tap water was 56 degrees, Wort went into the fermenter at 75. Any tips on water flow rates... full flow on cold? slow flow on hot wort? I think I was probably running my wort through too fast.
Good news is no pump clogs even though I just tossed the pellets into the boil, no bags, no spider. That worked fine.
Thanks for any tips!
I brewed today also a simple Cream Ale recipe that was 7.5lbs.
Tips I'm using:
1 - make sure your strike temp for mashing is 8 - 10 degrees higher. Use the same techniques you used for your cooler brewing.
2 - use the ball valve to help control the flow down the drain pipe. I know lots of folks on this thread might laugh at what I'm saying, but it works. I ran most of my mash cycle with the valve 1/2 closed or more. Wort down the overflow does very little to help maintain grain bed temperature. I'm running a temp probe in the grain bed to help monitor.
3 - I think your onto something with the crush. The GF needs a coarse crush to help the wort flow so your not going down the overflow completely. I'm running a Monster Mill at .045 thou. Its a three roller unit.
4 - I've been doing 90 minute mash cycle for the last 6 brews on the GF. I think this helps with extracting all the goodness in the grain.
Jamie
Tips I'm using:
1 - make sure your strike temp for mashing is 8 - 10 degrees higher. Use the same techniques you used for your cooler brewing.
2 - use the ball valve to help control the flow down the drain pipe. I know lots of folks on this thread might laugh at what I'm saying, but it works. I ran most of my mash cycle with the valve 1/2 closed or more. Wort down the overflow does very little to help maintain grain bed temperature. I'm running a temp probe in the grain bed to help monitor.
3 - I think your onto something with the crush. The GF needs a coarse crush to help the wort flow so your not going down the overflow completely. I'm running a Monster Mill at .045 thou. Its a three roller unit.
4 - I've been doing 90 minute mash cycle for the last 6 brews on the GF. I think this helps with extracting all the goodness in the grain.
Jamie
Thank you, I will!
Brewhouse is what I quote- I haven't bothered for some time taking a SG after mash to get mash eff. As Tex wrote, I too would like to see any 'like' comparison on this, controlling other factors. If I'm wrong I'd like to learn something new. I just don't see it, and I was also thinking the BIAB folks would know something about this. Sparge v no sparge will add to eff. Anyway, my point also raised a few questions you didn't answer that I thought might have driven your eff change. Care to answer those?
This is exactly what I'm thinking. That and wort clarifying / eliminating the vourlauf step - you do that for the whole mash time!
I mill with a cereal killer and my gap is based on the credit card method, so can't really help there, but I get some flour, fairly fine crush.
For CFC it is a balance between amount of cooling water (I run about 1/2 open right now with similar tap temps) and the valve on the GF (I did run mine wide open). Just mess with the two to get to what you want and you can measure your wort out temp with a sanitized thermometer (or even capture a small amount and measure) while you dial it in.
btw- I brewed today in a 41F garage, went really well, boil held very nicely, and I finally dialed in my water amounts correctly!
doogster read the above.
From a relatively new GF user (we all are afterall!). Jamie great post! 1-3 spot on, #4, ehh, I'm still on the 60 min mash, but if you're lower temp this makes sense to me too. I actually exceeded my OG a few points today, so happy to see. And hit for the first time the wort amount (5.5g) into fermenter spot on. Good brew day.
Me, too. Credit card gap works great. I've heard it's somewhere in the neighborhood of .032 but never bothered to measure it. One time I cranked it down to the narrowest .025",and my efficiency actually went down.
I do agree the 90 minute mash cycle is not really needed. What I end up doing is factoring in the mash-out in this step. It took today about 15min to get the grain bed from 150F to 168F in this step. So at about 75min mark of mashing I set the controller to 168F and flip the lower switch to normal from mash. I leave the top switch on mash. Maybe run the mash-out an extra 5 plus minutes past the 90min mark.
Good stuff. Tips that any recirculating eBIAB brewer should pay attention to. Concerning #3, I participated in a thread not to long ago about mill gap's impact on circulation. I landed on 0.040, but this past brew day I conditioned my grains before milling and went down to 0.035 with no problems.
Related to #2, I also believe you should gradually increase the rate of the pump as opposed to just giving it full throttle from the get go. Going wide open from the start has a tendency to compact the grain bed, much like what happens when you open the valve too fast on a MLT and you get a stuck sparge. Same principal.
All issues any recirculating eBIAB brewer has come across. They're not specific to the Grainfather. I'll go see if I can find that link to the other thread.
edit: found the link... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=543873
An interesting xbeeriment done by Brulosophy regarding sparging with cool vs. hot water:
http://brulosophy.com/2016/04/11/sparge-temperature-pt-1-standard-vs-cool-exbeeriment-results/
It may be worth a try on my next beer to see if there really is much of a difference. I'm already doing a mash out so I'm locking in the mash profile. I also start the boil switch when draining the mash and only sparge about 3 gallons, so I don't see the cool sparge water adding much more time to heat to boil.
http://brulosophy.com/2016/04/11/sparge-temperature-pt-1-standard-vs-cool-exbeeriment-results/
It may be worth a try on my next beer to see if there really is much of a difference. I'm already doing a mash out so I'm locking in the mash profile. I also start the boil switch when draining the mash and only sparge about 3 gallons, so I don't see the cool sparge water adding much more time to heat to boil.
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