Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[brewski09]

Dry hopping cider has become pretty popular these days, so I think you are fine. I think american varieties are more common like cascade and chinook, but it's all preference. I might recommend taking a small sample (a few sips) and blending with a hop tea or even just tossing a hop pellet fragment in there to see how it tastes to make sure you have the right hop.


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[Texconsinite]

Thanks for that confirmstion. Ya I was only planning on doing a lil bit, sinc wits only a gallon. I've used this batch of hersbrucker several time recently, in a Saison and a hefe, and really like them. 2.0A 6.3B. Low bitterness, good flavor and smell. I have high hopes


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[Helly]

Put my first batch of this in the keg Saturday. I made it without hops and used wlp 005. It tasted great after 15 day primary. I sealed it up with some priming sugar and hope to tap it very soon. I tried and liked the Apple Bee recipe but I think I've found a real winner with this one. Thanks for sharing.


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I just put this on tap. Holy cow it's good. Gonna start another batch real soon. Thanks for sharing the recipe.


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[brewman551]

Going to the LHBS this week to get the stuff to brew Brandon O's original recipe. Does this stuff need yeast nutrient? I will probably use Safale 04 or 05.



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[hunter_le five]

Going to the LHBS this week to get the stuff to brew Brandon O's original recipe. Does this stuff need yeast nutrient? I will probably use Safale 04 or 05.

Need? No. But it's never a bad idea to add a little anyway. Graf is 80% apple juice though, which is highly fermentable, so you should be fine without it.


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[brewski09]

I'd say that because it's 80% apple juice that it would need nutrient more than beer would. I wouldn't do this recipe without nutrient myself.

 

[hunter_le five]

I stand corrected.


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[jekeane]

Just made my first batch today! I got some Whitehouse all natural juice buy one get one and had some coupons too. I spent about $10 for it all. Hit 1.060 on the button, used some cascade hops I had lying about and US-05.

Does/has anyone chain made this and just racked on top of the previous yeast cake?

 

[brewski09]

Hunter, just my preference. If you aren't using any nutrient and it's working, don't fix it. If you want to run a quick experiment, do a batch of something you are very familiar with and make the only change adding nutrient and see if it changes it. I think this is a perfect recipe to use for that experiment.

 

[brewski09]

Just made my first batch today! I got some Whitehouse all natural juice buy one get one and had some coupons too. I spent about $10 for it all. Hit 1.060 on the button, used some cascade hops I had lying about and US-05.

Does/has anyone chain made this and just racked on top of the previous yeast cake?

I've reused yeast cakes before. You can actually get to much yeast. Dumping some of the slurry periodically and only doing a few batches per yeast pitch are good ideas. I might get rid of half of the yeast between batches.

 

[hunter_le five]

Hunter, just my preference. If you aren't using any nutrient and it's working, don't fix it. If you want to run a quick experiment, do a batch of something you are very familiar with and make the only change adding nutrient and see if it changes it. I think this is a perfect recipe to use for that experiment.

I use nutrient in everything I brew. I don't see a compelling reason not to. I was just (possibly) misinformed about the necessity (or lack thereof) in using it with apple-juice.

That would be an interesting experiment though.

 

[mintyice]

Brewed an All Grain version of this today.

BIAB Mashed at 152 for 60mins.
#4 2 row
#1 Crystal 60
.4oz Cascade 7% AA @ 30 min boil.

4 gallons Mott's 100% AJ
OG is 1.057, using Safale US-05.

 

[Ilan34]

I brewed this on 5/21. Stuck pretty close to the original recipe for a 2.75 gallon batch. My variations were:

Crystal 120
Carapils instead of torrified wheat
Sterling hops (6 grams)
Trader Joe's fresh pressed cider (pasteurized)
Increased steeping water by about 20% since my volume is small.
US-05 (pitched dry)

OG was 1.057. I pitched at 65 degrees and held it their in my ferm chamber.

The odd thing is that there was no activity for 12 hours and then I finally began to see some foam. Over the next day, foam built up but never formed a real krausen. I attributed this to the fermcap I used; I'm also not real familiar with what cider fermentation should look like. There was plenty of movement in the carboy, so I wasn't worried. The foam dropped away almost completely.

Then yesterday, it started forming an actual normal looking krausen. Today, it's going nuts and I'm wondering if I'm going to get blowoff! I've never had a fermentation take this much time ramping up to high krausen. What's the deal?

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[Helly]

That's how mine acted last time. It turned out great.


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[brewman551]

Brewed my first batch of this tonight, also sticking close to the original recipe. I used 120L Crystal because I used Sam's brand juice. I also used 1 ounce of Hallertau 3.9% AA hops. Cooled the wort with the AJ stored in the fridge, and it's around 62 degrees. When it warms up a bit, I'll pitch some Safale 05. OG was 1.060.


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[brewski09]

For future reference, you are fine to just pitch the yeast at 62F. I do it all the time with pretty much all stains.


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[brewman551]

Thanks. That's what I had planned if it didn't warm up. I pitched around 11 pm last night at 65 degrees, stirred with a whisk this morning to give her some oxygen, and sealed it up around 2pm today once I saw that fermentation had started. The airlock is chugging pretty good now.


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[graycobra]

I brewed mine with this recipe

3# Gold LME
.5 oz Cascade Boiled 30 Mins
8 oz Crystal 60 Steeped 30 Mins
4 gallons Sprouts AJ Used to cool wort
Munton's yeast

And it came out really malty without much AJ flavor and a bit of an extract twang. (Still really love it, my favorite homebrew so far) I don't care about clarity, so I was thinking of doing an all apple juice full boil. If I do it that way, can the sugars in the juice get hop utilization or would I still have to add the LME at the start of the boil? I was thinking:

5.5 gallons of AJ
Crystal 60 Steep 30 Mins
.5 oz Cascade 30 Mins
.5 oz Coriander 5 Mins
3# Gold LME 5 Mins
Munton's

Maybe dry hop or add some grapefruit peel to try and get more fruity flavors. How do you think the full boil with all apple juice will affect flavor? Most cider articles I've read are split about whether boiling AJ changes flavor profiles.

Do you think the maltiness was caused by the Munton's not really being highly attenuating? I figured with all the simple sugars in AJ, it would do fine.

 

[GEOlogic83]

Thanks for sharing. I have been brewing beer, but I am thinking about trying a Hard Cider and a Hard Tea.

 

[brewski09]

I brewed mine with this recipe

3# Gold LME
.5 oz Cascade Boiled 30 Mins
8 oz Crystal 60 Steeped 30 Mins
4 gallons Sprouts AJ Used to cool wort
Munton's yeast

And it came out really malty without much AJ flavor and a bit of an extract twang. (Still really love it, my favorite homebrew so far) I don't care about clarity, so I was thinking of doing an all apple juice full boil. If I do it that way, can the sugars in the juice get hop utilization or would I still have to add the LME at the start of the boil? I was thinking:

5.5 gallons of AJ
Crystal 60 Steep 30 Mins
.5 oz Cascade 30 Mins
.5 oz Coriander 5 Mins
3# Gold LME 5 Mins
Munton's

Maybe dry hop or add some grapefruit peel to try and get more fruity flavors. How do you think the full boil with all apple juice will affect flavor? Most cider articles I've read are split about whether boiling AJ changes flavor profiles.

Do you think the maltiness was caused by the Munton's not really being highly attenuating? I figured with all the simple sugars in AJ, it would do fine.

Honestly, the "twang" is more likely from the apple juice or a fermentation that could have been healthier (nutrient/yeast pitch rate/temp) than the extract. I brew a ton of extract beers (as well as all grain) and the only extract with a distinct non-grain character is sorghum IMO. If you can describe it more, we might be able to help more. As far as the maltyness, every yeast strain will accentuate different things. White labs 002 is a malt forward yeast whereas 001 Chico is a hop forward yeast. 001 is us-05 as well. If it finished a little higher than expected, you would also have additional malt flavors and a carbohydrate sweetness/slickness like when you mix up some extract and taste it. I don't like the muntons or coopers yeasts and would get rid of them myself. I used Nottingham dry yeast for my cider and liked it. Also good beer results.



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[graycobra]

Its a really bitter off taste at the end. My IBU is only at 9, so I figured it couldn't be that, but I could be wrong. I am still pretty green, but my flavors went up with my extract kits doing full boils and late extract addition. I was wondering if the same would be true for graff. I am currently doing no nutrient additions, I will definitely add that to this next brew.

I would hope that the AJ didn't cause it! I spent $8 a bottle lol

I took Munton's on the recommendation of the LHBS. I will try US-05 next brew.

 

[brewski09]

If it's the apple juice then it should age out. I did a cider recently and it took a little bit for it to come together, sort of like a Mead just takes time. I think there is just so much flavor in beer that you can't really taste it but suspect it's there in beer too.

 

[Texconsinite]

Just bottled my Wheat graff last night.

I did wheat LME, Crystal 20L and some Hersbrucker hops. 2 gallons regular, 1 gallon with a few additional pellets dryhopped in at 7 days. I let it sit for 3 weeks.
2 Gallon- 1.044 to 1.004
1 Gallon- 1.048 to 1.004
Both are clear
I gotta admit, I was surprised at the flavor of this. The hydrometer sample was very mild and drinkable . Doesnt have the rocket-fuel taste or puckery dryness of previous cider batches. Hops were not

Im curious how the flavor will change once its carbed and chilled. I've heard some say ciders dont get "good" until they've had months to age, is that the case here too?
My concern is i let it go for 3 weeks vs the 2 it calls for. Also, I forgot to sparge my specialty grains after steeping them. How will these things affect it?

After using mild hersbrucker and getting little to no hop flavor in this batch, I am wondering if anyone has tried this recipe using some of the new hop varieties coming out with unusual fruit flavors like Hull Melon, Mandarina, Hallertau Blanc, Calypso, or Nelson Sauvin?

On a related note, has anyone been able to ferment with juices other than plain apple and gotten a stronger fruit flavor at the end? the hydro sample, while smooth, was "kinda bland" for SWMBO. Would berry juice in place of some apple work here?

 

[hunter_le five]

I've heard some say ciders dont get "good" until they've had months to age, is that the case here too?

All of my batches of Graff have been "good" fresh from the fermenter, but they certainly got a lot better after aging for a couple months.

My concern is i let it go for 3 weeks vs the 2 it calls for.

Shouldn't be an issue. I had a batch sit in the primary for ~2 months, came out great.

Also, I forgot to sparge my specialty grains after steeping them. How will these things affect it?

I wouldn't worry about it. I think any taste difference as a result will be negligible.

After using mild hersbrucker and getting little to no hop flavor in this batch....

The hops are really used more for balancing than any kind of noticeable flavor contribution.

 

[jekeane]

What is a good FG range for Graff? I followed Brandon's original recipe and used us-05 at 63-65. OG was 1.060, I am currently at 1.009 after 16 days. the cider is very cloudy still like can't see the hydrometer in the sample cloudy.

I used whitehouse fresh pressed juice and added some nutrient to the wort would be my other variables.

 

[hunter_le five]

What is a good FG range for Graff? I followed Brandon's original recipe and used us-05 at 63-65. OG was 1.060, I am currently at 1.009 after 16 days. the cider is very cloudy still like can't see the hydrometer in the sample cloudy.

I used whitehouse fresh pressed juice and added some nutrient to the wort would be my other variables.

My first batch finished out at 1.007. Can't remember the FG of my second batch, but I believe it was somewhere in that ballpark as well.

Fresh pressed cider tends to take much longer to clear-up than store-bought juice, in my experience. I would continue to let it sit until the gravity stops dropping, and then if it doesn't clear up shortly after that point, you might consider speeding things along by cold crashing or using gelatin.

Either way, this recipe doesn't really start to shine until it's had some time to age, so you might just do well to let it sit for a few months.

 

[Ilan34]

Fifteen days in the primary, and it's sitting at 1.003! Down from an OG of 1.057. I used cider and US-05.

It's cloudy, a little tart, very dry, some apple flavor, but a little dull. No signs of infection, but that's a hell of an attenuation.

Should I be worried?

 

[hunter_le five]

No.

 

[brewman551]

I'm a bit buzzed to go reading through 2500 posts... Has anyone used Brandon O's original recipe and primed with a can of FAJC instead of priming sugar? I'm trying to add some apple flavor back in for SWMBO...or will the apple come back with age? Mine is 13 days fermenting and is at 1.010 but not that sweet and not that apple-flavored. Other than that the hydro sample tasted really clean.


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[brewski09]

I think frozen juice concentrate is too unpredictable for priming purposes. I took the route of back sweetening with juice (do this with the FAJC) and then using sugar to prime to 1.5 volumes. This got me the juice characteristics and predictable carbonation levels.


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[brewman551]

Would a can of FAJC and priming sugar be too much, causing bottle bombs?


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[brewski09]

Sorry, I did not mention that you will have to pasteurize to do this. Great catch on that one.


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[ZombieBrew83]

Results from oak aging:

Starting with my variation on this recipe, I aged this in a carboy with 3 oz medium toast American oak cubes for 5 months. The results are delicious. It tastes like an apple cider Chardonnay. Light, woody, toffee, slight tannin flavor, butterscotch, tart, slightly sour, very smooth. I highly recommend oak aging the stuff if you've got the patients.

OG 1.062
FG 1.006
Fermented at 68 for three weeks before racking and adding the oak cubes.

4 gallons Trader Joe's McIntosh Apple Juice
3 lbs XLDME
1 lb Crystal 40L
8oz CaraPils
1 oz Styrian Golding 3.8%AA @30min
Ferment with Wyeast 1968 London ESB

 

[graycobra]

It looks like my flavor issues were contamination. I used a whole bunch of stubby bottles and they didn't seal correctly when capped. Damn.

Going to try a rebrew around apple harvesting season with some fresh stuff.

 

[BigBry]

Materials needed for a 5 Gallon Batch

Clean fermenting yeast I have used Nottinham and Safale-05, both are good
.5 lbs of Crystal 60L If you use cheap store brand juice, I reccomend 120L. Cheap juice tends to turn out a tad tart and this will balance it.
1 oz of torrified wheat ( head retention, I've never used more than 2oz)
4 Gallons of apple juice.
1 gallon of water
2 lbs of DME ( I use 1 lb. amber and 1 lb. light DME)
0.5 oz of you favorite hops ( right around 6% AA, I have used 18.5% AA summit hops before and it took a month after kegging for strong bitterness to blend nicely)
WARNING! IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF HOPS USED, MAKE IT LESS NOT MORE, it's really just too bitter with any more.

Directions for brewing

Steep the 60L and torrified wheat in .75 gallons of water @ 155 degrees for 30 mins.
Sparge with .25 gallons 170 degree water and throw away grains.
Add DME and bring to a boil.
Add hops when boiling starts and boil for 30 mins.

Cool down the wort (if you choose not to cool the wort and just let the AJ do the cooling then your cider won't be as clear). I don't care about clarity so I just let the AJ do the cooling, but if you stick your pot in the freezer and let this get down to 70 degrees or so your cider will clear fairly easy. Pour the wort and apple juice into your carboy and pitch yeast.

Ferment 2 weeks at 64-68 degrees then keg or bottle.

I keg, and this stuff is VERY drinkable as soon as it is carbonated.
SUPERB taste and drinkability after 2-3 weeks of aging.

People bottling, it will have SUPERB taste and drinkability after the standard 3 week bottling period for carbonating.

I didn't know if you knew you were famous. http://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/episode/brewing-tv-episode-68-how-to-make-graf/

 

[GenIke]

Looks like new Belgium is coming out with a commercial version of Graff. http://thebeerspy.com/2014/01/06/what-is-this-new-grafft-from-new-belgium/

 

[jekeane]

Tapped my keg a few nights ago. I followed OP using Whitehouse Fresh Pressed apple juice (not cider) C120 and .5 oz of Cascade 6.4% AA OG .060 FG .008 ABV 6.8%. Due to a keezer problem this aged at room temp about a month and then sat for a few days on gelatin finings before first pull. It is very good, very drinkable probably dangerously so, great for lawn mowing (just watch your toes if you got a big yard and can get a few down). My wife who loves woodchuck said it's not as cidery as she thought it would be but she really liked it, which is nice because the extra 2% abv over woodchuck may yield promising results for me. Looking to get some more feedback as the 4th of July approaches.

Thanks Brandon for the recipe!

Here is the first pour

 

[Antitoxidote]

I'll be brewing this pretty soon. If my OG hits 1060, should I use 2 packs of dry yeast?

 

[brewski09]

You can but I don't think you need to.


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[mgonbrewlab]

I started a batch of this on Sunday. I decided to mix up the grain bill a bit and used a quarter pound each of caramel 60 and Marris Otter and eighth of red wheat with a little less than a half ounce of Galena for my hops.

I used S-33 for my yeast before reading all of the horror stories. Fortunately, the airlock was bubbling happily and vigorously for the last four days and just slowed down this morning. I am planning on letting this stay at 64 for another few days and then bringing it back upstairs to warm up for a week before bottling.

Now to decide what I want to repitch on this cake...