Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

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I finally got around to bottling this thing after a few months. I used potassium sorbate to kill the yeast, because I didn't want to carbonate it. I back sweetened it with 2 cans of concentrate, I figured 1 would do it, but out didn't, so I added another, and still it's not as good as I hoped. But, I'll just add something to it when serving, but it's not that bad as is. I added a bunch of brown sugar, so it's def higher alc % 8-9? Not bad for an experiment.


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I used Mt. Hood hops on my first attempt on this. It was really good, but just didn't have the hop bite I wanted. I read the word of caution on the use of hops in the recipe, but in any case I am going to go with this dry hopping experiment.

1) Brewing a standard 5 gallon batch, according to the recipe.

2) Breaking it into 5 separate 1 gallon jugs for fermentation. One jug with no additional hops, but each jug thereafter with slightly more hops.

3) Prime, bottle and wait three weeks as with the regular recipe.

4) Determine which level of dry hopping is just right. And then scale it back up to 5 gallons.


Now I've done lots of wine and ciders, but very inexperienced with beer and hops. I'll be working with dried pellets most likely. Thoughts on how much to put in each of the 1 gallon jugs?
 
Start with a tenth of a ounce and then scale each one up by a fifth . So in retrospect the first one would have a half ounce like the recipe calls for and then the last one would have a ounce and a half. Each going up a quarter ounce in hops .
 
I'm going to be putting this into 22oz bombers (caps) and 32oz (swing top). Do I need to pasteurize if I prime with 5oz dextrose to prevent bombs? I've read mixed reviews on this thread with the need to pasteurize or not. E.g. the page before this (228) says no. Thanks <3
 
Well don't worry, just do exactly as the recipe says. I forget what volume to prime to though. Use the Northern Brewer Priming Calculator to figure it out.
 
If you ferment this until its done, or dry, then prime and bottle just like an ale, you should be fine.

Some folks though, don't like it completely dry, and want some sweetness either left in by stopping the fermenting a little early or by back sweetening after the fermenting is done. A few ways to do this depending on whether you want it carbed or still, like a wine. Check around on this and other threads, there is a lot of talk about how to do this to avoid explosions.

Scott
 
Read through most of this last night, lots of ideas about different yeasts, but no one reporting back on how it worked out. Anyone tried a saison? May finish out too dry. Would be interested in bretting in secondary, perhaps a roselare blend? Denny's favorite yeast is said to leave a fuller mouthfeel.
 
Just bottles this last night started with og of 1.068 finished with a fg of 1.013 so 7.3% alc. Used white labs east midlands yeast 039. Tasted and it was very dry, no malt taste really showing through. No hop flavor. Hoping the tartness mellows out once its carbed. Overall reminded me of wine. I will report back in a few weeks onces its carbed up
 
I've got a pumpkin ale fermented with S05 that I'm keeping in the primary for another week and a half. When I rack out I'm going to dump this recipe onto the yeast cake. Should be interesting, can't wait to see how it turns out.
 
Made my first batch of this stuff tonight.

2.75 lb of amber DME boiled in 2 gallons water
8 oz crystal 60
8 oz malted wheat
3 gallons of fresh cider (various apples)
0.5 oz of hallertau 30 mins
0.1 oz hallertau 15
0.4 oz hallertau flame out

I used wyeast North West ale yeast 1332 at about 70F

I'm pumped to try it
 
Going to give this a try, as my wife loves ciders.

I've been making my beers with all barley and clarity ferm, because she is gluten intolerant, so I have a couple questions:

1. Is there a decent barley based substitute for the torrified wheat?

2. If I add clarity ferm to this, does anyone know if I could use less than a whole vial considering the much smaller amount of malt as compared to beer?
 
dave8274 said:
Going to give this a try, as my wife loves ciders.

I've been making my beers with all barley and clarity ferm, because she is gluten intolerant, so I have a couple questions:

1. Is there a decent barley based substitute for the torrified wheat?

2. If I add clarity ferm to this, does anyone know if I could use less than a whole vial considering the much smaller amount of malt as compared to beer?
Click to expand...

Beware, thus tastes nothing like a traditional apple cider.
 
Does not taste like traditional cider,but it is dang tasty none the less. You may also try Grahms english cider recipe,simple and very good.
 
BrewerBear said:
Does not taste like traditional cider,but it is dang tasty none the less. You may also try Grahms english cider recipe,simple and very good.
Click to expand...

I actually have a batch of cider ready to bottle that I made with only juice and Nottingham yeast. After reading a bit more about Graham's Cider and on suggestion from someone on another thread, I am going to add the lime and tea to the bottling bucket to hopefully make something close to that.
 
So I just got all the ingredients to make a seasonal Pumpkin Pie graff.. I loosely based this recipe on the all grain recipe here as well as various parts of recipes trying to clone Pumking. I plan on doing this tomorrow, so any input would be awesome.

I'm doing an all grain. Here's my recipe:

3lb Maris Otter 2-row = looking to get a nutty biscuit flavor to resemble the crust
2lb Crystal 80L = It's a nice amber "pumpkin" color
1/2lb light brown sugar
1oz Fortified wheat = head retention
1lb rice hull = for straining the mash (you'll see why below)
1oz crystal hops = this one i'm a little worried about, so any thoughts would be appreciated (read below)
4 gallons kirkland (costco) pure apple juice
Water = Enough to yeild 5/5.5 gallons for the fermenter
1 package of #1187 (Ringwood ale yeast) = I'm looking for the diacetyl in this to get that "buttery" crust flavor

For the mash:

I'm going to do a high mash temp ~ 158F for body and sweetness

During the mash I'm going to use:

a can (almost 2lb) of libby's pumpkin puree = Before it goes into the mash, I plan to spread it thin on a baking pan, cover it with the brown sugar and bake it (this is the reason for the rice hulls)
a box (or half) of crushed graham crackers (for the crust)
a box (or half) of crushed nilla wafers (again for the crust)

I will add the spices at kegging.
I'm going to make separate tinctures using whipped cream vodka and spices such as:
Cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice, clove, candied ginger... etc.

I also plan on going somewhat heavy on the vanilla and possibly experiment with hazelnut/almond flavors. I wont know what it'll end up being until I can experiment before kegging. I can say that I'm going to try to keep the spices in the background while bringing forward the vanilla. I also plan on going exceptionally light on cinnamon and probably a little higher on ginger. But that's why I'm going to separate the tinctures and experiment.

Now about the hops. I'm a little worried about the 1oz of Crystal because Brandon O says to be careful on the hops. He said to use .5oz of 6% AA. Brewsmith says crystal is about 3.5% AA, but my package says 4.3%. Is there a target IBU I should aim for? Right now Brewsmith says I'm at about 10.3 IBU (assuming 1oz @ 3.5 AA). I'm using crystal because I want to take advantage of the spiciness--Cinnamon, Nutmeg, Black pepper. Should I do part of the 1oz (say .75% or .50%) at 60 then the rest at 10? or...?

I plan on fermenting in my temp controlled chamber, but not sure what temp yet. I'll be doing a secondary to help it clear (not sure what to expect with the pumpkin and cookie additions). I'll let this sit until Halloween if not Thanksgiving, then I will keg and force carb it. Should I add whirloc and/or pectic enzymes to help it clear?

As is, Beersmith says I should get about 7.9% abv
 
That sounds awesome. I might have to try something like that. Let us know how it goes?
 
Alright... I just got done with the pumpkin pie graff.

My original calculations were off... I gave the apple juice a 1.053 gravity, but in fact it's much lower @ 1.044, so my ABV is targeted at about 7% not 7.9%

I ended up doing .75 ounce of the hops @ 60 and the other .25 @ 10. This gives me an IBU of 10.6 @ 4.3 % AA

I mashed in right at 160, and expected to lose a few degrees over the hour. I pretty much stayed close to the 158.

I did preheat my tun and the pumpkin puree. I only sprinkled a little of the brown sugar on the puree and baked it @ 375 for 25 minutes. It got kinda dry and brown.

added the rest of the brown sugar @ 15 in the boil.

did 1lb of rice hulls, and I did 2 of the individual packages that come in the box of graham. And I added the whole box of the nilla wafers.

the color is very dark orange. The pumpkin and brown sugar added some color. It may be a little darker than I wanted, but only time will tell. I also tasted the graham and nilla wafers, but I'm almost wishing I went with the full box of both.

All in all I'm pretty darn happy with it. I'm probably going to start my tinctures tomorrow.

edit: so I ended up taking a taste of the left over wort that had cooled in the measuring cup. Ya, I taste the nilla wafer graham VERY much. Way more than when it was hot. I think I'm glad I didn't go the full box of both.
 
I woke up this morning to some fermentation action. Thank god because I went to bed worried. The smack pack didn't expand, and it took forever to show signs of fermentation. I guess that's 1187 (ringwood) for ya.

Anyway, here's a pix for those interested.

PumpkinGraff_zpsf00f8ae9.jpg
 
My apologies if this has been brought up - I had a hard time with the search function.

Has anyone brewed this with more hops?
I wanted to make a pumpkin ale and I wanted to make this so I kinda combined.

60 oz pumkin from the can (roasted for 90 minutes)
4 gallons treetop apple cider
5lbs light liquid malt extract
2lbs oatmeal (for body)
2lbs brown sugar
1oz cascade and 1oz warrior hops (@ different times during the boil)

Gonna add some cinnamon and clove infused vodka to get some of those fall flavors.

I am still pretty new to brewing - I have no gravity readings, etc.
I have made some awesome hard ciders and a couple decent ales but I am wondering how this might turn out.
Will the tartness of the apple cider end up being too much?

Anyways, just wondering if anyone has tried anything like this.

Cheers!
 
MisterWoody said:
My apologies if this has been brought up - I had a hard time with the search function.
Click to expand...

It says right on the OP:

Later on, I found hops also helped balance the overall flavor. BUT ONLY A TINY BIT, DO NOT USE MORE THAN CALLED FOR

WARNING! IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF HOPS USED, MAKE IT LESS NOT MORE, it's really just too bitter with any more.

And my pumpkin pie graff is in the fermenter now. Look at the posts right above yours.
 
Started a variation on this this weekend. Reduced hops to 1/8oz and added 4oz grated fresh ginger in a hop bag to the boil the same time as the hops. Smells wonderful so far.
 
Just brewed this on Saturday. Had an OG of 1.064. What is everyone else getting for OG and FG? Just curious what to expect. I would prefer it to end up a little more on the dryer side
 
huntb said:
Just brewed this on Saturday. Had an OG of 1.064. What is everyone else getting for OG and FG? Just curious what to expect. I would prefer it to end up a little more on the dryer side
Click to expand...

My OG was 1.055 and FG was 1.007

I don't consider it particularly dry compared to other ciders I've made, but it's not super sweet either. I really like the balance.

The flavor of mine has really changed remarkably over the past couple months. All of the tart/green apple aftertaste is long gone and it has turned into something truly wonderful. I can't wait to make this again. It has also cleared up beautifully, it is now crystal clear, like amber glass. I'll have to post a new picture.

My advice to anyone trying this recipe: Don't get impatient and drink it all too fast. Set some aside and let it lager a few months (either in keg or bottle). It gets even better with some age.
 
Spiced ginger graff just racked to secondary. Down from 1.070 to 1.022. Tastes great and still steadily bubbling away. Hope it dries out a bit more. Used s-04 yeast.
 
Here are the pics:

image-225508791.jpg

I can't say enough good things about this recipe. I just wish I had something better than a camera phone to do this thing justice.

image-4039700361.jpg

Clear enough to read through.
 
insanim8er said:
Did you brew yours with a dark malt extract?
Click to expand...

i made my 1st batch with light and amber DME, some crystal 120 and t-58 yeast. it was decent but just lacking flavor, it had a touch of apple tartness but not much sweetnesss from the malt. i remember it being pretty dry and tart the first 2 months, then mellowed out nice. its about 9 months now. easy drinker for sure, great for people that dont like craft beer. and/or chicks :mug:

i just bottled a 2nd batch with Dark LME and used s-05 hoping that would add a little more to it. ill post pics when i crack my first in a few weeks. def looks darker in the bottle
 
insanim8er said:
It says right on the OP:

Later on, I found hops also helped balance the overall flavor. BUT ONLY A TINY BIT, DO NOT USE MORE THAN CALLED FOR

WARNING! IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF HOPS USED, MAKE IT LESS NOT MORE, it's really just too bitter with any more.

And my pumpkin pie graff is in the fermenter now. Look at the posts right above yours.
Click to expand...

You know, I wonder about this. I wouldn't want my graff to be more bitter, but I'm not sure a bit more hop flavor or aroma would be a bad thing. Combined with pumpkin, I can't say. I'm having a hard time imagining it all, frankly. It sounds good, but I'm never sure pumpkin translates well into a beverage that isn't really, really sweet.
 
scottsaxman said:
You know, I wonder about this. I wouldn't want my graff to be more bitter, but I'm not sure a bit more hop flavor or aroma would be a bad thing. Combined with pumpkin, I can't say. I'm having a hard time imagining it all, frankly. It sounds good, but I'm never sure pumpkin translates well into a beverage that isn't really, really sweet.
Click to expand...


Experiment? I don't think pumpkin ales are overly sweet, if done right.

With my pumpkin graff I mashed high to obtain more sweetness, so well see how it goes.

I had a pumpkin cider the other day, and it was interesting to say the least. I didn't enjoy it. I felt it was too sweet and apple forward. The pumpkin spices seemed muddy and seperate. It just didnt work. I know that sounds weird, but I think it's because of back sweetening with AJ. My GF liked it. I'm hoping mine comes out a bit dryer. If I have to sweeten it, I'll have to figure something else instead of AJ.
 
insanim8er said:
I woke up this morning to some fermentation action. Thank god because I went to bed worried. The smack pack didn't expand, and it took forever to show signs of fermentation. I guess that's 1187 (ringwood) for ya.

Anyway, here's a pix for those interested.

PumpkinGraff_zpsf00f8ae9.jpg
Click to expand...


So the base to my pumpkin pie graff has been fermenting for about a week. I've been fermenting at 65f. I started at 13 brix (1.53) I'm now down to 7.4 brix (1.014 corrected)

I think there's still some fermenting going on. I was hoping to see about 6.5 brix (1.009 corrected). This is my first reading, but so far the sample was great. I'm almost not wanting to do anything to it, but I promised the GF I'd do a pumpkin.

I'm going to rack this over to a keg and let it sit until Halloween, then i'll spice it up.

I'll report back in a month or so with my final results. I think this is going to make a great Halloween/Thanksgiving drink. I'm worried it's not going to make it to Thanksgiving dinner, so I may need to start another one asap.

This will be a great drink to test out my new portable kegerator for Thanksgiving @ grandmas with the family.
 
A bit concerned:

Followed the recipe to a T (minus the torrified wheat) and used Safale-05. Poured the hot wort into the cool cider (fresh, unpasturized from the orchard), pitched the rehydrated yeast, and stored it away at 65F.

4 days later now, and no krausen has formed, at least in the traditional sense. What I DO see is this very thin (quarter-inch?) layer of thick, smoothish, brown "sludge" on top. It kind of looks like it could be yeast clumped together in a big round brick, but unlike any krausen I've ever seen. No bubbles from the blow-off tube either. I see no "yeast dances" in the carboy either.

Is this somewhat normal for this graff? Should I repitch another pack of yeast and give it a solid shake? Leave it be and hope for the best?
 

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