Going All Electric

[eagle23]

So, I'm starting to make plans to build an electric set up. I was inspired by Kal's brewery, but I want to make a couple of changes. First I am going to make a whole thing with tri-clamp connections, and I want to set it up with a RIMS system rather than HERMS. My goal is to have three pid controlling the HLT, mash and the boil with enough power to run all three elements at once. I want to base everything off of Kals panel but add one more relay to allow it to control the temps for the mash as well.

I want to set it up with a 240v power supply. I know probably need more than the 50 amps to run everything, I am just wondering what I would need to do to accommodate that or is that wishful thinking?And maybe is there a panel avalible that has what i am looking for?

Is there anything else that I am overlooking or tips that would help with the build?

Thanks so much.

 

[redllama]

This is what I have been looking to do as well. My initial solution is to use 4500w elements in the HLT and Kettle and a 2000w RIMS. This theoretically with everything going keeps me at 46 amps so a little room to play with for the pumps. I've also looked at "upgrading" to a 60amp breaker to give that extra wiggle room. It is a little harder to find some of the parts and they can be more expensive but having that extra buffer would be worth it in the long term.

 

[mongoose33]

I just went to electric last August. I ran a 60-amp breaker in my main panel to power a sub-panel in the garage. My advice would be to run the largest you can do w/in code restrictions; you never know what you might want to do later. In my case, I didn't plan on the garage heater I installed later when I found a deal on one. Never even thought of that, but i have the capacity to do that.

I can run both the 5500-watt boil kettle and a 5000-watt electric garage heater off that circuit at the same time, with room to spare. I've never tried to max it out but it's plenty for that. The 5500-watt element pulls about 23 amps; the 5000-watt heater pulls about 21 amps. So with those on at the same time, I'm at 46, with room to spare.

The electrician friend that helped me hook it up said that the typical way of sizing breakers is to allow something like 20 percent extra capacity on the breaker.

Now, it all depends on the capacities you're looking to accommodate, i.e., how many things do you expect to run at once. I run the RIMS on a separate controller than the BK, it's a simpler system at some levels. The RIMS uses a 1650-watt element run off 120-v current. I used 4-wire to the control panel for the BK so I could also run a couple pumps on it.

But I'm not running the RIMS at the same time as the BK, and vice versa. I could--the RIMS element only draws 13.75 amps. But I can't figure out why I'd need to run them simultaneously.

You *can* size the system so you can run everything at once, but in my system I never do that. Will you? I'd doubt it.

 

[processhead]

The maximum volume of your batches will have a direct bearing on the size of the elements you need. Do you have plans to do batches larger than 5 gallons or 10 gallons?

The element size and number will have the greatest impact in determining the capacity of the electric circuit supplying your system.

Another factor is whether you plan to do back to back batches where you are heating strike water at the same time you are doing a boil.

When you are heating all this water at the same time it will have a bearing on the peak amp draw on your supply circuit.

 

[doug293cz]

Assuming you will have two pumps, you will need to allow about 5 amps for them plus the control panel itself. So, with a 50A circuit you have about 45A available for heating, which works out to 45A * 240V = 10,800W. So, that is the most heating capacity you can run at once. With a 60A circuit you will have 55A * 240V = 13,200W available. There are various ways you can allocate the total heating power between three elements, and limiting the number of elements that can be on at one time, allows each of the elements to be larger.

Brew on

 

[eagle23]

Thanks everyone for the feed back. I do recognize that the odds of me having to run everything at once is slim, but I am starting this from an absolute blank slate and figure it would be nice to have the option, just in case. I am going to do 5 gallon batches and don't really see a situation where I am going to expand.

 

[augiedoggy]

This is what I have been looking to do as well. My initial solution is to use 4500w elements in the HLT and Kettle and a 2000w RIMS. This theoretically with everything going keeps me at 46 amps so a little room to play with for the pumps. I've also looked at "upgrading" to a 60amp breaker to give that extra wiggle room. It is a little harder to find some of the parts and they can be more expensive but having that extra buffer would be worth it in the long term.

if you use a 4500w 240v element with a 2000w 240v element your max amp draw would only be about 25-28amp range depending on true output since most elements draw less than rated.... thats what I have in my setup. 120v elements draw twice the amps than thier 240v counterparts... people often overlook that here.
I run my 3 vessel system off a 30a circuit.. a 5500w element for the boil, 4500w for hlt and 1800w for my rims plus 3 24v dc pumps and the control panel... I dont run my BK at the same time as my hlt or rims but do run my hlt at the same time as rims to heat sparge water... zero issues in 6 years.

Theres many 2000w ballpark 240v element options you can go with a cartridge heater which has advantages to keep clean as well as being longer for better heating in each pass and lower watt density.

 

[rudylyon57]

I ran a 50 circuit but after many brews I find max draw is 36 A for about 15 minutes from two 4400w @ 240V elements while simultaneously heating mash for mashout (via RIMS) and heating sparge water. In reality, I normally mashout at 1100w to avoid scorching which brings peak demand to 27A.

 

[SW Ohio Keith]

reason for edit. Reread my post and realized I must have been enjoying one too many homebrews. Sorry.

 

[doug293cz]

Don’t cut it so close. Every power source I’ve ever probed was 230 volts and 115 volts. If you do your calculations based on 240/120, you’ll underestimate your amperage. It’s not a huge difference, but just something to keep in mind.

Not true. If an element is rated 5500W @ 240V, then it will draw less current, and provide less power at 230V. The element has essentially a fixed resistance, and in that case, the formula for resistance is: R = V^2 / P, or 240V^2 / 5500W = 10.47 ohms. The power at 230V then works out to: 230V^2 / 10.47 = 5053W. The current is given by P / V, so at 240V the current is 240 / 10.47 = 22.9A, and at 230V the current is 230 / 10.47 = 22.0A.

Also, your actual mains voltage may vary depending on where you live, time of day, and season. At my house, I usually get 119 - 120V.

Brew on

 

[processhead]

Don’t cut it so close. Every power source I’ve ever probed was 230 volts and 115 volts. If you do your calculations based on 240/120, you’ll underestimate your amperage. It’s not a huge difference, but just something to keep in mind.

240/120 volt service voltage is a good conservative assumption to base other circuit design requirements upon. As doug293cz said, a lower voltage at the brew panel will only result in reduced load current and heat/power output of the element.
When using an SSR for element switching there are resistive losses in the SSR that will generally reduce actual circuit load current even more than that calculated using just the heater element wattage rating.