Glycol chiller questions??

[baer19d]

I just built a glycol chiller out of a 12,000 BTU air conditioner and so far it works great with water. My questions are, aside from the risk of contamination and poisoning do I need to use food grade glycol or will antifreeze work? If food grade do I need to use one with an inhibitor? I know silicone tubing is preferred but what other/cheaper flexible tubing will work? Lastly, what exactly is the purpose for the compressor delay on the controller and what should I set it at?

Thanks, Mike

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

12,000 BTU? Damn, you don't fool around . I used to used a stainless coil inside my fermenter, with a glycol system with the RV antifreeze , other's might chime in , but as long as there's no risk of leakage into the beer, I'd feel comfortable using the RV antifreeze.

 

[baer19d]

12,000 BTU? Damn, you don't fool around . I used to used a stainless coil inside my fermenter, with a glycol system with the RV antifreeze , other's might chime in , but as long as there's no risk of leakage into the beer, I'd feel comfortable using the RV antifreeze.

I know 12,000 BTUs is overkill but it was actually the cheapest one on Craigslist. There's no chan ce of contamination because I'm goi g to use a chilling jacket instead of a coil.

 

[LarMoeCur]

Check the ingredients. I believe Ethylene and propylene glycol can become corrosive as they starts to oxidize. Which leads to leaks. Me personally I would use food grade. If you had a small leak and contaminated your beer how would you know? The savings is not worth the risk. You could have just put the AC unit in fermentation chamber. My 5000 btu AC will hold 20 gallons of beer at 50 degrees all day in the Texas heat. Not as efficient as glycol but way more safe and less head aches.

 

[wyowolf]

Check the ingredients. I believe Ethylene and propylene glycol can become corrosive as they starts to oxidize. Which leads to leaks. Me personally I would use food grade. If you had a small leak and contaminated your beer how would you know? The savings is not worth the risk. You could have just put the AC unit in fermentation chamber. My 5000 btu AC will hold 20 gallons of beer at 50 degrees all day in the Texas heat. Not as efficient as glycol but way more safe and less head aches.

How do you do that? Curious

 

[baer19d]

Check the ingredients. I believe Ethylene and propylene glycol can become corrosive as they starts to oxidize. Which leads to leaks. Me personally I would use food grade. If you had a small leak and contaminated your beer how would you know? The savings is not worth the risk. You could have just put the AC unit in fermentation chamber. My 5000 btu AC will hold 20 gallons of beer at 50 degrees all day in the Texas heat. Not as efficient as glycol but way more safe and less head aches.

You're correct about the corrosive nature of the glycol. That's what the inhibitor is for, it inhibits the corrosion.
I don't know what you mean by much safer? Glycol chillers and jacketed fermenters are the industry standard method of cooling fermentations. As far as a small leak contaminating the beer goes, it's impossible. It's a cooling jacket on the outside of a sealed stainless container. So many things would have to go wrong in order for glycol to get into the beer that my house would probably burn down in the process taking the beer with it. I suppose nothing is truly impossible though. I've been fermenting in a chamber for years and the chiller is the next evolution.

 

[LarMoeCur]

Wyowolf, In a nut shell I built an insulated box and attached a window AC unit. I adjusted the set screw on the AC thermostat to run in the 40s. Super easy to do with just a screw driver. I then plug it into a temp controller.

Baer19d, I may have made some assumptions when I said safer. In my research on cooling, I think most people pump the glycol through coils. I've seen some submerged in the beer and some wrapped around the fermenter. My assumption was that he would be running submerged coils. You are correct if running through a jacketed fermenter or exterior coils no safety difference.

 

[augiedoggy]

I use blue home depot discharge hose wrapped around my stainless fermenters.($15 per conical) ..and use foodgrade glycol, its cheap and you dont need a lot. I can get frost on the inside of my conical wall when testing empty so its works well despite what some people believe.
been using this for about 2.5 years with nothing growing in the glycol solution and no reason to change it... I cool 3 conicals this way with one chiller.

 

[wyowolf]

Details? I have SSferm

I use blue home depot discharge hose wrapped around my stainless fermenters.($15 per conical) ..and use foodgrade glycol, its cheap and you dont need a lot. I can get frost on the inside of my conical wall when testing empty so its works well despite what some people believe.
been using this for about 2.5 years with nothing growing in the glycol solution and no reason to change it... I cool 3 conicals this way with one chiller.

 

[augiedoggy]

Details? I have SSferm

toward the end of my build thread below I have some pictures and a more detailed explanation but I use a manifold like this made of cpvc. and each conicqal uses a cheap 24vdv solenoid valve which is on a dual pole relay that onece my Bru control software calls for cooling activates the 24vrelay as well as the 240v main chiller pump.
this setup does work very well and its very cost effective... I have a vanilla porter and cream ale fermenting now... porter is set at 67 degrees and the cream ale at 71.. cooling kicks on about every 7 hrs for the porter and about every 8-9 for the cream ale which is almost done.

I wrapped the discharge hose around the outside of my conical and taped it in place with some foil tape loosely as well as a heating strip . Then I wrapped each conical with two layers of foil faced bubble wrap insulation also like Home depot carries and taped it with the foil tape at the seams.. this works well to insulate them. and allow for the minor expansion when the hose fills with coolant.
I use to use stc1000 units but switched to brundogs brucontrol software since it works great and is cheap and versatile allowing me to run my brewery control panel and fermenter control panel at the same time.. each uses an ardiuno and relay board as the brains and main mechanical interface which is very cheap to build.

View attachment GLYCOLGUIDE.pdf

 

[baer19d]

I use blue home depot discharge hose wrapped around my stainless fermenters.($15 per conical) ..and use foodgrade glycol, its cheap and you dont need a lot. I can get frost on the inside of my conical wall when testing empty so its works well despite what some people believe.
been using this for about 2.5 years with nothing growing in the glycol solution and no reason to change it... I cool 3 conicals this way with one chiller.

What diameter discharge hose did you use and does the glycol fill it as it flows through or just trickle through it?

 

[baer19d]

toward the end of my build thread below I have some pictures and a more detailed explanation but I use a manifold like this made of cpvc. and each conicqal uses a cheap 24vdv solenoid valve which is on a dual pole relay that onece my Bru control software calls for cooling activates the 24vrelay as well as the 240v main chiller pump.
this setup does work very well and its very cost effective... I have a vanilla porter and cream ale fermenting now... porter is set at 67 degrees and the cream ale at 71.. cooling kicks on about every 7 hrs for the porter and about every 8-9 for the cream ale which is almost done.

I wrapped the discharge hose around the outside of my conical and taped it in place with some foil tape loosely as well as a heating strip . Then I wrapped each conical with two layers of foil faced bubble wrap insulation also like Home depot carries and taped it with the foil tape at the seams.. this works well to insulate them. and allow for the minor expansion when the hose fills with coolant.
I use to use stc1000 units but switched to brundogs brucontrol software since it works great and is cheap and versatile allowing me to run my brewery control panel and fermenter control panel at the same time.. each uses an ardiuno and relay board as the brains and main mechanical interface which is very cheap to build.

I guess this post answers my question to your other one. Lol
I might give the discharge hose a try.

Thanks

 

[augiedoggy]

I guess this post answers my question to your other one. Lol
I might give the discharge hose a try.

Thanks

its a bit awkward to set in place until you get everything wrapped in an insulation jacket but it does work awesome... better than the coolzone jacket I bought for my stout conical..

Theres a you tube video showing someone using it with a waterbath... thats where I got the idea honestly.

I like that there no coils to have to clean or additional holes and fittings. I use a tc tee and set the thermowell right down into the wort from the top which works best for accurate readings.

 

[wyowolf]

what are you using to cool the glycol? and AC unit or some other kind of unit... cost is def a factor here. An AC unit i have, trying to decide what would be best. When the fermenter is full its HEAVY and hard to get the beer out cleanly...

toward the end of my build thread below I have some pictures and a more detailed explanation but I use a manifold like this made of cpvc. and each conicqal uses a cheap 24vdv solenoid valve which is on a dual pole relay that onece my Bru control software calls for cooling activates the 24vrelay as well as the 240v main chiller pump.
this setup does work very well and its very cost effective... I have a vanilla porter and cream ale fermenting now... porter is set at 67 degrees and the cream ale at 71.. cooling kicks on about every 7 hrs for the porter and about every 8-9 for the cream ale which is almost done.

I wrapped the discharge hose around the outside of my conical and taped it in place with some foil tape loosely as well as a heating strip . Then I wrapped each conical with two layers of foil faced bubble wrap insulation also like Home depot carries and taped it with the foil tape at the seams.. this works well to insulate them. and allow for the minor expansion when the hose fills with coolant.
I use to use stc1000 units but switched to brundogs brucontrol software since it works great and is cheap and versatile allowing me to run my brewery control panel and fermenter control panel at the same time.. each uses an ardiuno and relay board as the brains and main mechanical interface which is very cheap to build.

 

[augiedoggy]

what are you using to cool the glycol? and AC unit or some other kind of unit... cost is def a factor here. An AC unit i have, trying to decide what would be best. When the fermenter is full its HEAVY and hard to get the beer out cleanly...

I do have a chiller but an ac window diy chiller will work just as well with a big pump in the cooler/sump... they are almost the same thing really but a cooler based diy solution can actually be made most efficiently due to the fact that many chillers dont have the greatest insulation on their tanks.

 

[wyowolf]

I do have a chiller but an ac window diy chiller will work just as well with a big pump in the cooler/sump... they are almost the same thing really but a cooler based diy solution can actually be made most efficiently due to the fact that many chillers dont have the greatest insulation on their tanks.

ok found the pics... so its just a plastic hose that you wrap around the tank? interesting. I would have thought copper or something else.

 

[augiedoggy]

ok found the pics... so its just a plastic hose that you wrap around the tank? interesting. I would have thought copper or something else.

Its a very thin walled flexible rubberlike hose actually... I was skeptical too You wouldnt think it would allow great temp transfer but im telling you I could scrape the frost off the inside of my conical with my fingernail... its very strong hose and has held up great so far.

I also experimented with a cooling coil which was made of surgical rubber... that did not hold up to the cold temps well and burst causing a mess. the discharge hose is reinforced and strong stuff.

 

[wyowolf]

Its a very thin walled flexible rubberlike hose actually... I was skeptical too You wouldnt think it would allow great temp transfer but im telling you I could scrape the frost off the inside of my conical with my fingernail... its very strong hose and has held up great so far.

I also experimented with a cooling coil which was made of surgical rubber... that did not hold up to the cold temps well and burst causing a mess. the discharge hose is reinforced and strong stuff.

between that and My AC i should be able to rig up something... that would def make the conical a lot more useful to me. Now I lager in the fridge and ales in the conical, but it would be nice to put everything in the conical..

looks like you have th same blichman con.... any way to tell exactly how much goes into the fermentor? i have trouble with that... there arent any markings

 

[augiedoggy]

between that and My AC i should be able to rig up something... that would def make the conical a lot more useful to me. Now I lager in the fridge and ales in the conical, but it would be nice to put everything in the conical..

looks like you have th same blichman con.... any way to tell exactly how much goes into the fermentor? i have trouble with that... there arent any markings

no mines not the blichman.. The shorter larger one a 12.5 gallon older spike clone I bought new for $300 shipped

You may have trouble wrapping the discharge hose around a blichmann conical because of the legs on the outside that run up the side...

I dont monitor amounts that closely... I aim for 10.5-11 gallons at the end of my boil and as long as the gravity is where I want it to be and its over 10 gallons in the conical im happy...

 

[wyowolf]

no mines not the blichman.. The shorter larger one a 12.5 gallon older spike clone I bought new for $300 shipped

You may have trouble wrapping the discharge hose around a blichmann conical because of the legs on the outside that run up the side...

I dont monitor amounts that closely... I aim for 10.5-11 gallons at the end of my boil and as long as the gravity is where I want it to be and its over 10 gallons in the conical im happy...

oh ok, yeah your right about the legs.

what i have been doing lately is putting it under the mini split, and directing the ac down to it, then boxing it in with foam boards... it gets down to low 50s... that might be close enough...

I just wish i knew how much so i dont over or under fill the kegs... i guess i will just add ten gal measured and mark it somehow...

 

[augiedoggy]

oh ok, yeah your right about the legs.

what i have been doing lately is putting it under the mini split, and directing the ac down to it, then boxing it in with foam boards... it gets down to low 50s... that might be close enough...

I just wish i knew how much so i dont over or under fill the kegs... i guess i will just add ten gal measured and mark it somehow...

unless your carbonating with sugar, what is the difference if theres a lilttle more or less beer in the keg?
As long as the gas inlet is not submerged in beer I dont see the problem. I flush with co2 a few times and sometimes just carb under pressure and other times I use the quickcarb unit I built.

I often split my batches into 2 5 gallon kegs and one is often filled more than the other. I have never noticed a difference in the beer?

 

[wyowolf]

unless your carbonating with sugar, what is the difference if theres a lilttle more or less beer in the keg?
As long as the gas inlet is not submerged in beer I dont see the problem. I flush with co2 a few times and sometimes just carb under pressure and other times I use the quickcarb unit I built.

I often split my batches into 2 5 gallon kegs and one is often filled more than the other. I have never noticed a difference in the beer?

lol, your right I guess... when i split mine, it always seems to a bit different between them volume wise... i guess i could just mark it and be done with it.. i always wonder if im fermenting 10 gal or 12 or what...

 

[cod3ck]

@augiedoggy do you think I could get away with the cold hose setup without the insulation wrap?

Reason I ask is I tried this with a mash tun and anything under the insulation just got nasty after a couple batches... be nice to just have a hose to add/remove

 

[SlothWhisperer]

I use blue home depot discharge hose wrapped around my stainless fermenters.($15 per conical) ..and use foodgrade glycol, its cheap and you dont need a lot. I can get frost on the inside of my conical wall when testing empty so its works well despite what some people believe.
been using this for about 2.5 years with nothing growing in the glycol solution and no reason to change it... I cool 3 conicals this way with one chiller.

 

[augiedoggy]

@augiedoggy do you think I could get away with the cold hose setup without the insulation wrap?

Reason I ask is I tried this with a mash tun and anything under the insulation just got nasty after a couple batches... be nice to just have a hose to add/remove

I'mmnotssure If understand the question? There's nothing to get nasty and grow.. the discharge hose is wrapped around the outside of the fermenter and the insulation wrap might get some condensation on the inside but if everything's clean when you put it together and it's in a fairly clean environment I don't see where the nasties will come from... I had one of mine apart about a month ago after 3 years of use and it was still clean inside.
That said if your using it for a mashtun I would just seal the circuference of the top well we're the insulation meets the kettle so nothing spills down between. Without insulation the chiller will be running constantly

 

[cod3ck]

I'mmnotssure If understand the question? There's nothing to get nasty and grow.. the discharge hose is wrapped around the outside of the fermenter and the insulation wrap might get some condensation on the inside but if everything's clean when you put it together and it's in a fairly clean environment I don't see where the nasties will come from... I had one of mine apart about a month ago after 3 years of use and it was still clean inside.
That said if your using it for a mashtun I would just seal the circuference of the top well we're the insulation meets the kettle so nothing spills down between. Without insulation the chiller will be running constantly

Great point — I was speaking from the experience of when I insulated my MT.

Thank you for the reply, this answers my question perfectly!