Giving away free beer in Oregon, legal?

[The_Doctor]

There's a local fly shop looking to put beer on tap and the owner is interested in having me be the brewer. He just wants customers that hang out there to be able to have a beer and the most that would happen financially would be a tip jar to keep the beer funded. Does anyone know about the legality of this? My research has come up short. http://licenseinfo.oregon.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=license_seng&link_item_id=14070
I know there's no issue for brewers to promote with free samples, so maybe serve in 6 oz "sample" glasses? All info would be appreciated!

 

[krackin]

You can probably give it away but the tip jar would be income no matter how you wish to dice it.

 

[aiptasia]

I wouldn't do it. "Giving" beer away at a business establishment in the hopes of financial remuneration (selling fishing gear) would be a violation of the Federal homebrewing laws. Moreso if a tip jar was put out. The federal law also outlines limits on sharing homebrew (15 gallons per year is it?) not to mention any State laws where you live.

Not.Worth.It.

 

[Komocabo]

Yep, you will need some licensing/permits/red tape junk. Sorry

 

[duboman]

I am not a proponent of this ..........but....

I am also not in Oregon, have the local fly shop owner contact the local Chamber of Commerce as they will have an attorney on staff that could easily answer the question.

I know some states have their own regulations about the giving out of home brew and I know Oregon is a pretty active state in this hobby so it should be pretty easy to find out if it's a yeah or a nay but there should be no money involved AT ALL as that totally blurs the lines

 

[C38368]

Yeah, federal and state laws both apply.

Oregon does not require any license to give away alcohol in connection with something else. There are quite a few barber shops in Portland that I'm aware of that do this. I believe that Oregon's statutes also only refer to the explicit sale of alcohol; giving it away as a means to entice people to come in and spend money elsewhere seems to fall outside of the statute's scope, but is not expressly permitted, either. I know of no case law on point.

I'm not sure how federal law would play into this, but I would be shocked if either the ATF or TTB cared at all if no economic transaction accompanied this. Kind of like how they "don't care" if you give your brother in another state a handgun for his birthday. (It's still a felony.)

 

[The_Doctor]

I forgot about those barbershops, I'll shoot some of them an email to see how they do it. If that doesn't pan out, es ist kaput.

 

[C38368]

Based on my discussions and experiences with them, they buy alcohol commercially (just like your or I would) and then give it away to clients for free. Works well in a setting like that, were people might have to wait a few minutes, but aren't likely to hang around all day like you sometimes see in retail stores.

Also, because they're buying stuff at retail, federal laws have (presumably) been complied with further up the supply chain. That wouldn't necessarily be the case here.

 

[ktblunden]

Under federal law "Any adult may produce beer, without payment of tax, for personal or family use and not for sale." I think the bold portion is where you would have issue.

It goes on to say that beer produced in accordance with that section "may be removed from the premises where made for personal or family use including use at organized affairs, exhibitions or competitions such as homemaker's contests, tastings or judging." You may also have difficulty meeting the requirements of that section. Have the business ask a lawyer, since they are most at risk by this activity.

All this information came from here.

 

[Phunhog]

We were discussing something very similar last week. In that case a home brew shop was giving away free samples. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/beer-samples-lhbs-384968/ Apparently in a lot of states it is legal....don't know about Oregon. The tip jar is technically illegal.....of course if you had just a generic tip jar at the counter that might fly. Or you could just charge an extra nickel on all the flies and no one would be the wiser.

 

[Jack_R]

Hey all, similar question - slightly different trajectory.

I've had this exact thing happen like - no kidding - 15 times over the past few years (I'm sure we all have!)

If a friend asked me to brew beer for a formal party he was throwing where would I stand (talking guest list in the 100ish+/- range)?

The sub-questions would be: could I be reimbursed for the cost of the ingredients (or could we split the costs)?.....what if he was present and participated in the brewing of the actual beer to be served?
I have an aviation background and it seems similar to a general aviation pilot flying his friends somewhere for a weekend: he can't be paid for it, but they can share the cost of the aircraft rental/gas, etc. Furthermore, it's totally legal for his friends to pay for his hotel/meals/drinks for the trip too as it's not directly tied to the flight of the aircraft itself. That's what makes me curious!

If I simply brewed the beer and absolutely no money was transferred, it seems to me that we would be within the spirit of the law in regard to the prohibition of "manufacture with intent of sale", but what about the transfer laws? (I'm in new mexico, I just checked and they don't have any express limit on it, or total production so it would only be federal laws in this instance that are of concern).

And yes, I know as long as no money trades hands it's unlikely that ATF/TTB are going to hunt me down. But I don't need and crossed-eye looks nor do I want to sully our awesome homebrewer reputation that we all share :rockin:

Thanks!

 

[aprichman]

Hey all, similar question - slightly different trajectory.

I've had this exact thing happen like - no kidding - 15 times over the past few years (I'm sure we all have!)

If a friend asked me to brew beer for a formal party he was throwing where would I stand (talking guest list in the 100ish+/- range)?

The sub-questions would be: could I be reimbursed for the cost of the ingredients (or could we split the costs)?.....what if he was present and participated in the brewing of the actual beer to be served?
I have an aviation background and it seems similar to a general aviation pilot flying his friends somewhere for a weekend: he can't be paid for it, but they can share the cost of the aircraft rental/gas, etc. Furthermore, it's totally legal for his friends to pay for his hotel/meals/drinks for the trip too as it's not directly tied to the flight of the aircraft itself. That's what makes me curious!

If I simply brewed the beer and absolutely no money was transferred, it seems to me that we would be within the spirit of the law in regard to the prohibition of "manufacture with intent of sale", but what about the transfer laws? (I'm in new mexico, I just checked and they don't have any express limit on it, or total production so it would only be federal laws in this instance that are of concern).

And yes, I know as long as no money trades hands it's unlikely that ATF/TTB are going to hunt me down. But I don't need and crossed-eye looks nor do I want to sully our awesome homebrewer reputation that we all share :rockin:

Thanks!

I agree with your line of reasoning that if someone purchased the ingredients and was present during the brewing process it should entitle them to use the beer as if it were their own. Legally, whoever pitches the yeast into the wort technically makes the beer for what it is worth.

 

[Jack_R]

Well that sort of settles that then.