Getting into sours

[Dadux]

I had never tasted sour until briefly before i started brewing a month and a half ago or so.
I really liked it so i would like to give it a try. I have the next batch planned but after that i might give it a try if i come with a solid plan. For this i would like to ask the more expert brewers a bunch of things.

Here is what i intended to do.
14l wort, around 2.7kg vienna, 0.5kg dark munich and 0.3kg Caramel 300.
Mash normally. Then cool to 45ºC and add a premade culture from some grains (2-4 days ago). This way i know by smell i dont have contamination.
Problem is i cant keep temp constant for a long while either in kettle or culture. Kettle keeps constant temp longer. I might heat water in it to 50ºC and put the starter there to keep it warm too. I can also acidify the culture before inoculation with some lemon or vinegar. The ammount is so small it would be noticeable in the big batch i suppose.
Then kettle sour for 24h or so until pH is 3.4-3.8. Im kinda scared of this. My pot is supposed to be 3 layered, stainles steel, aluminum and stainless steel again. I think steel is fine with acidity but i dont wanna ruin the pot.
After that boil and cool, pitch yeast and ferment normally (with a neutral-ish strain, M36 from Mangrove Jack's), maybe add some tettnagner hops to the boil and after. They have low AA but will add some flavour. Then bottle in 3 weeks with priming sugar for around 2.2 volumes of CO2 and drink in another 1-2 weeks.

I've also read people saying that if you do sour in a bucket then dont use it for normal beer later, is this true? or only if i use brett/dont boil the microbes first? I usually spray with a 10% metabisulphite solution...

Lastly, would something like this yield good results? should i change something or do you have any tips or even just recommendations on how to get a good sour beer/better recipe?

Thanks

 

[Owly055]

If you do a sour mash, there is no danger of contaminating anything, as you will be boiling afterward. Let me suggest making a small very sour mash by mashing some grain, cooling it to room temp, and pitching some unmashed malted barley into it. Cover with a floating layer of saran wrap to exclude oxygen while it's souring for several days. It will bubble under the saran wrap, but that's not a problem.
Pour the works into a brew bag to filter off the grain, rather than actually mashing in a bag.... At least that's the way I've done it. Save this sour wort.

Now do our main brew normally, and in the boil kettle, add the sour wort until you get the desired sourness, and pitch the remainder if there is any. Boil and hop. Be careful to keep the IBUs low..... sour and bitter don't go well together in my opinion.

I have to confess that my best sours have been accidental where the souring took place in the secondary fermenter due to "contamination".............

H.W.

I had never tasted sour until briefly before i started brewing a month and a half ago or so.
I really liked it so i would like to give it a try. I have the next batch planned but after that i might give it a try if i come with a solid plan. For this i would like to ask the more expert brewers a bunch of things.

Here is what i intended to do.
14l wort, around 2.7kg vienna, 0.5kg dark munich and 0.3kg Caramel 300.
Mash normally. Then cool to 45ºC and add a premade culture from some grains (2-4 days ago). This way i know by smell i dont have contamination.
Problem is i cant keep temp constant for a long while either in kettle or culture. Kettle keeps constant temp longer. I might heat water in it to 50ºC and put the starter there to keep it warm too. I can also acidify the culture before inoculation with some lemon or vinegar. The ammount is so small it would be noticeable in the big batch i suppose.
Then kettle sour for 24h or so until pH is 3.4-3.8. Im kinda scared of this. My pot is supposed to be 3 layered, stainles steel, aluminum and stainless steel again. I think steel is fine with acidity but i dont wanna ruin the pot.
After that boil and cool, pitch yeast and ferment normally (with a neutral-ish strain, M36 from Mangrove Jack's), maybe add some tettnagner hops to the boil and after. They have low AA but will add some flavour. Then bottle in 3 weeks with priming sugar for around 2.2 volumes of CO2 and drink in another 1-2 weeks.

I've also read people saying that if you do sour in a bucket then dont use it for normal beer later, is this true? or only if i use brett/dont boil the microbes first? I usually spray with a 10% metabisulphite solution...

Lastly, would something like this yield good results? should i change something or do you have any tips or even just recommendations on how to get a good sour beer/better recipe?

Thanks

 

[Dadux]

Seems like a good advice but doesnt lacto just eat sugar until certain pH? like 3.3 or 3.2...
Also what do you consider a small wort? half the volume? 1/4?
By contamination i mean enterobacteria taking over, i read they can develop fecal or vomit smells.

Thanks though. Im just trying to fully understand!

 

[Owly055]

Seems like a good advice but doesnt lacto just eat sugar until certain pH? like 3.3 or 3.2...
Also what do you consider a small wort? half the volume? 1/4?
By contamination i mean enterobacteria taking over, i read they can develop fecal or vomit smells.

Thanks though. Im just trying to fully understand!

I generally go about 1/4........ Any bacteria used for souring is going to eat sugar or alcohol.


H.W.

 

[Dadux]

That seems like a great idea. i have some glass containers where i can do that. What pH do you usually get in the final wort?
Also is it a problem if its not at 45ºC for a long time? does lactic acid still get produced at normal temps (20ºC)??
Sorry for all the questions...

 

[radwizard]

@Dadux - You should check out sourbeerblog.com and read the articles on fast souring techniques. On part 2 the have a table guide that is very informative for getting into sours. I use often use Goodbelly probiotics from wholefoods for my Lacto in kettlesouring.

 

[Dadux]

thanks, yeah i already did.

Also i just made a starter with 300 ml 5% sugar and 1% vinegar and 1/2 tbsp of munich malt, boiled the water and sealed the jar, when it dropped to 45ºC i added the malt. After 1h its bubbling like crazy. I think i just cultured yeast haha. We will see...

I will check the smell and maybe gravity after a few days.