Funky and Dark Belgian-Inspired Project

[CadillacAndy]

I'm getting ready to brew a couple batches of a Belgian-inspired ale. I'm going to scale up the recipe to 8 gallons and split it in to 4 equal parts to ferment with 4 different yeasts - WLP530, Brett C, Brett B and Brett L. My goal is to get an idea of the different yeast strains, using the same batch of beer as a control.

I'm going for a dryer, dark beer with medium body and lower alcohol (5.2%-6% ABV). My efficiency has been around 80%, so I'm trying to keep on the lower end of that, just so I don't go wayyy over my anticipated OG.

I'm using 2-row as the base malt. I was going to use some Belgian pils, but didn't think it'd make that much of a difference because I'm using a full pound of Vienna to add some complexity and color. The oats are in there to provide some extra body, since I'm mashing a little low to help dry things out. The debittered black malt is mainly for color - I'm planning on adding this at vorlauf or sparge, but not sure if this makes a difference, since it's debittered. Candi sugar is there to help dry it out as well.

Would it make sense to make up a smaller batch and use something like US-05 to get a better handle on how the grain bill is playing together? Or is it solid enough to just go ahead and do my experiment? Anything you'd change? Am I way off base here with my plan and recipe? Am I better off using something in the Carafa Special family (I, II, or III)?

Funky and Dark Project
Batch size: 5 gallons
5 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) 58.8 %
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) 11.8 %
12.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) 8.8 %
8.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) 5.9 %
4.0 oz Black (Debittered Patent) Malt (400.0 SRM) 2.9 % - ADD DARK GRAIN AT SPARGE
1 lbs Candi Sugar, Dark (100.0 SRM) 11.8 %
0.30 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min 18.4 IBUs

BJCP Style - Belgian Specialty Ale
25 SRM
18.4IBU (single 60min addition)
Mash at 150F for 60 min
90min boil

Thanks for reading and thanks for any and all input! It's greatly appreciated!

 

[dcp27]

seems like a solid plan, should see if you can still find any of the WLP644 (brett brux trios) to do the full set available look forward to hearing the results!

how much brett do you plan on pitching and what temp are you fermenting these at?

 

[CadillacAndy]

Excellent. Glad I'm not too far off. I was looking for the Brett trois but couldn't find it. I'll be splitting them in to 2 gallon batches. I have the Brett b already going on the stir plate and my Brett c is already decanted and ready to pitch. I guess the Brett l is the only one that I don't have a starter for already. Think I should make one just to keep the playing field even? I think I'll be okay with just 1 vial of the wlp530.

My ambient cellar temp is 72F right now, so I can't get too much warmer than that without moving them to the attic - which isn't a problem of you think I should go warmer. I have a temp controlled fermentation chamber I can use too if I should go cooler, but my ambient cellar temp seems like it should be a-okay based on my research so far.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[dcp27]

i'd prolly do a starter with the brett L too. if its wyeast, the cell counts might be high enough that you don't need it tho (IIRC they claim around 70bil cells vs like 3bil for white labs). 1 vial will def be fine for the 530

72F sounds great, esp for the brett. I prefer pitching in the 60s and letting it go up, but at this ABV there shouldnt be any fusel worries and the 530 won't get much banana.

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

just grabbed 644 from highgravitybrew.com but think i got there last one...(had to wait couple days for shipment verification)plan on doing a 530+644(also a 3724+644 but thts another thread) im gonna subscribe to this thread since im using amost the same grain bill as you, maybe ill do exact and in a couple months we can excange bottles

 

[CadillacAndy]

Thanks for the interest! I have my first 5 gallon batch of Brett C going right now. I brewed it shortly after creating this thread. I have my Brett B starter going. I'll probably decant that this afternoon and get the Brett L starter going next. I ordered a 15 gallon kettle and it should be here today, so I'll be able to brew up 10 gallons to split between 3 fermenters. Trying to boil 10 gallons in an 11 gallon kettle is no fun.

The Brett C batch took off quickly with the 1L starter. The smell coming off the airlock was awesome. Lots of dark and tropical fruits - dates, figs, cherries, mangos, maybe a little peach. This is my first 100% Brett fermentation, so I wasn't quite sure what to expect. It looked and behaved a lot like a standard sacc ferment. The krausen has dropped, and it's starting to look more like what I'd expect from Brett. I'm going to pull a sample here early next week to check gravity and do a taste test, then will keg it up shortly after to free up the fermenter. I'll probably end up doing a 100% Brett IPA, with all late hop additions to keep the overall IBUs to like 20... should be interesting.

If you decide to use the same grainbill as my recipe, I'd love to do a bottle exchange! I'll probably bottle 1/2 of each batch from kegs and let them sit for a few months in my cellar. Thanks again for the interest! Keep me posted on how things progress.

 

[dcp27]

why such low bitterness on the IPA? brett isn't effected by IBUs and the attenuation isn't really any more than chico, so I wouldnt treat it much differently than a normal one. do like the hop bursting idea either way tho

 

[CadillacAndy]

There was an interview with the guy from Crooked Stave on the Brewing Network (can't remember his name) and he talked about doing a 100% IPA with no bittering hops. I'm not a huge fan of the bitterness part of IPAs, so having all aroma and dry hop appealed to me. I this might be the beer they were talking about - http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/crooked-stave-wild-wild-brett-green-wwbg/162100/

 

[dcp27]

chad Y? nothing wrong with the hop bursting technique, i like it alot, i've just always done higher bittering with it (40 & 100 most recently). i guess even in jamil's one he does it pretty low tho so i guess it would be fine, was just thinking it would seem too sweet. actually, now that i tihnk of it, i have done one before with just an add at flameout and the balance was fine. i withdraw my original comment

 

[CadillacAndy]

Bingo. Chad Y. The last 2 IPAs I did ended up at about 1.005 or a little lower. I was mashing pretty low and adding sugar, so I'm going to need to correct that for this late hop ipa I think. I ended up getting something crazy like 89% attenuation from us05. Not bad beer by any means. I probably prefer it to be really, really dry to be honest.

Now that we've derailed the thread with our ipa talk...

Thanks again for the advice! I'll report back after brew day.

 

[CadillacAndy]

I wanted to give a quick update after brew day and a week or so in to the fermentation.

Here's the final recipe as it was brewed. The differences are that I replaced the 4oz debittered black patent malt with 8oz Carafa III and replaced 1lb of the dark candi sugar with 1lb of regular table sugar. My only reason for the sugar swap was that I thought I had more in stock than I really did. I upped the dark malt because of the loss of color from replacing the dark candi with white sugar. The Carafa III was added at sparge instead of to the mash.

10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US
2 lbs Vienna Malt
1 lbs 8.0 oz Oats, Flaked
1 lbs Special B Malt
8.0 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM)
1 lbs Sugar, Table
8.0 oz Candi Sugar, Dark
0.75 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min 20.2 IBUs

I mashed at 152F for 60 mins with 5.5 gallons of water and sparged with about 9.5 gallons of water. Collected about 12.5 gallons in to my 15 gallon kettle.

After the 90 min boil I ended up with about 10.5 gallons of 1.049 wort, with an efficiency of about 84%. I cooled this down to about 80F using my plate chiller and pump and ran it off in to 3 carboys. I always lose a little more than expected to kettle sludge, pump, chiller and hose loss, so the final volume was probably more in the 9.5 gallon range. After it leaves the kettle, I have no good way to measure it, so I just let her ride. The batch was split: 2.5 gallons in to 3 gallon carboys, and 4+/- gallons in to a 6 gallon carboy.

I set all 3 carboys in my fermentation area to cool down to pitching temp overnight. Came down in the morning and pitched WLP530 in to the 4 gallons, Brett L in one of the 2.5 gallon and Brett B in the other 2.5 gallon.

The WLP530 was going very nicely within about 12 hours. It's been fermenting for about a week now at 68-70F. The temp on the carboy thermometer got up to 72F, so I'm guessing the internal temp was probably more in the 75F range. Hopefully this won't throw too many crazy flavors.

The Brett B batch was going within about 24 hours - with a small krausen. It dropped for a day or two, then came back and is still going after about a week.

The Brett L batch took much longer to take off. Probably around 48 hours or so. It formed a small krausen and is holding steady.

I'm going to let this go for another 2 weeks or so to let everything finish up, then keg and carbonate all 3. After that, I'll do a tasting, then bottle for aging and sampling at a later date.

Next update will be after I pull them from the fermenters.