Fruit concentrate kit instructions don't seem right?

[SaraG]

I bought a fruit concentrate kit from a supplier on Ebay after I read a rave review from someone else in this forum several weeks ago. It came yesterday and the instructions have me a bit confused.

The instructions have you mixing everything in a bucket like usual, but then moving it to a carboy with an airlock (and only up to 4 gallons to prevent blow off) for 8 weeks. It says to top off after about a week, after the fermentation settles down (I'm assuming with water, it doesn't say).

I've never done a primary fermentation in a carboy. Wouldn't it go faster in a bucket? Leaving it sitting on the sediment for 8 weeks before racking won't affect the flavor? Or maybe that's what gives it the right flavor?

After 8 weeks you're supposed to rack it, add potassium sorbate, leave it for 3 weeks and then bottle when it's clear enough. So that's the only racking, and there's no degassing.

This is so different from all the other kits I've made I wanted to get some opinions before I started. I don't want to ruin this batch by doing something different. It's a blackberry concentrate, by the way. Lalvin K1-V1116 yeast.

Thanks for the input!

 

[RPh_Guy]

Hi & welcome SaraG!

Is this for a sweet wine? With no fining agents?

Ferment in bucket. Rack/degas onto sulfite on carboy. Minimize headspace (can use glass marbles, juice, wine, or water). Allow to clear (optionally rack as desired). Sorbate. Sweeten. Additional time/racking if needed. Bottle.

Everyone does things a little differently.
-There's nothing wrong with fermenting in a carboy. You can freeze some of the must and use it to top up after the bulk of fermentation.
-Bucket vs carboy shouldn't affect fermentation speed.
-Leaving it on the lees for a few weeks shouldn't hurt it, generally speaking.
-Sorbate is only needed if you're making sweet wine.
-Use of fining agents may change the process a little.

Cheers

 

[SaraG]

The instructions say that depending on if you want a sweet, semi-sweet, semi-dry or dry wine to add x amount of sugar at the beginning. I think that's wrong, too. My understanding is that the amount of sugar you add at the beginning doesn't necessarily affect sweetness, but will determine potential alcohol content, unless the yeast doesn't support that high of alcohol. This yeast goes up to 18%, so I feel like adding all the sugar they say for a sweet wine (7 lbs) would give me high alcohol. I'd rather backsweeten. But I prefer a drier wine, anyway, so I probably won't backsweeten.

And no, no fining agents. Just the potassium sorbate. The only other thing that came in the kit is pectic enzyme, which goes in at the beginning.

I think I'm going to fill it to 5 gallons in my primary bucket and ferment it for a week in the bucket. Then I'll do a SG check and transfer it to a carboy for the remainder of the time. Would you add the potassium sorbate when I rack it into the secondary after the first week? Or should I rack it again after 8 weeks with the sorbate and then let it sit for 3 more weeks (or until clear)? Should I be adding anything if I rack it after a week,like campden tablets? The kit didn't come with any, but I have some.

Even though this is my fourth or fifth kit I feel like I don't know anything! Thanks for your help!

 

[Maylar]

Don't use the sorbate until bottling time, when fermenting is done and the wine is as clear as it can get. And as mentioned, only if you will be sweetening it. Campden at bottling time too, for an antioxidant.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Sorbate inhibits yeast budding, so it is only effective for preventing fermentation when the yeast population is very small -- after the wine has cleared and you've racked off the lees.
Sorbic acid is the active product of potassium sorbate.
Up to 300ppm sorbic acid can be used, lower if it's high ABV.
The flavor is detectable on the upper side.

Sulfite (SO2) serves two separate purposes and each has different timing and dosage: as an antimicrobial (molecular SO2) and as an antioxidant (free SO2). A portion of free SO2 becomes molecular SO2, varying by pH level.
Like many other things, people take different approaches.
In unpasteurized must I'll add 1ppm molecular sulfite and allow it to work for 24 hours before pitching yeast.
I generally add sulfite when I rack after fermentation is finished with the dose depending on how long I plan to bulk age it or if I'm bottling immediately (20-50ppm free sulfite)
This site has a good sulfite calculator: http://fermcalc.com/FermCalcJS.html

Hope this helps!
Cheers