Forgot to double early addition hops...what should I expect?

[lititzbrew]

So, last Friday I decided to try a 12 gallon batch of a PTE clone. I took Vinnie's recipe that's floating around on the internet and doubled it for the batch size. The entire brewing process went flawless. I hit my gravity and batch size and was super excited over the weekend. This morning, I opened up BeerSmith to admire the recipe that I so proudly executed perfectly and noticed that my 90 minute hop addition looked a little off. I knew right away what I did. I forgot to double the amount of columbus hops :smack:. It was supposed to be 7oz but I threw in 3.5oz! I doubled everything else in the recipe except for the most important hop addition! I had a feeling something was off at the time but it was my 2nd brew of the day and I wasn't exactly thinking straight.

So, now I'm curious as to how big of a mistake this was. Is it going to turn our entirely too sweet and not bitter enough? BeerSmith was still showing 147.5 IBU so I don't see how that's not going to be bitter enough but it still worries me because I know those calculations aren't 100% accurate. Is there anything I can do to account for the loss of IBUs like a hop extract in the secondary or something? I know I should just RDWHAHB but 12 gallons is a lot of beer to screw up and I want to make it right! Plus, I really want PTE

 

[JonM]

With all those late additions and the huge dry hop, I don't think you'll notice the missing bittering hops. Besides, 3.5 is a crapload, even in a 12-gallon batch. I think you'll get plenty of bittering from what's in there and you'll wind up with an awesome beer.

EDIT: In fact, I just kicked a 5-gal keg yesterday of a hop-bomb IPA where I used 1 oz. of Columbus at 60, and that was plenty bitter. Your beer's gonna be fine.

 

[lititzbrew]

With all those late additions and the huge dry hop, I don't think you'll notice the missing bittering hops. Besides, 3.5 is a crapload, even in a 12-gallon batch. I think you'll get plenty of bittering from what's in there and you'll wind up with an awesome beer.

EDIT: In fact, I just kicked a 5-gal keg yesterday of a hop-bomb IPA where I used 1 oz. of Columbus at 60, and that was plenty bitter. Your beer's gonna be fine.

Thanks for the affirmation. I know I added a ton of hops to this batch, I guess I'm just disappointed that I'm not actually cloning PTE to a T. Wondering what the differences will be. Cheers!

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

If your hop calculation is showing 147 IBU's, then you still used to much hops. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100-120 is about all a beer can handle. The rest does not get absorbed by the beer.

 

[JonM]

A 12-gallon batch must have called for something like two pounds of hops total, right?


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[lititzbrew]

A 12-gallon batch must have called for something like two pounds of hops total, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Almost. 26.5oz total. Including Dry Hops.

 

[lititzbrew]

If your hop calculation is showing 147 IBU's, then you still used to much hops. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100-120 is about all a beer can handle. The rest does not get absorbed by the beer.

I understand this but this is what the recipe calls for. In BeerSmith, if I put in the recipe for Pliny The Elder directly from Russian River it comes out to 234.9 IBU. It says in actuality it's something like 90-100 IBU, so there is something off with the calculation.

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

I understand this but this is what the recipe calls for. In BeerSmith, if I put in the recipe for Pliny The Elder directly from Russian River it comes out to 234.9 IBU. It says in actuality it's something like 90-100 IBU, so there is something off with the calculation.

I am assuming that you are doing at least a 60 minute boil, and everyone's desire is to use crazy amounts of hops, but hops are expensive and when you want to amp up the the hops, late addition and dry hopping are the only way to increase the hop perception. Bittering gets maxed out at a certain point (thinking it is 100 IBU, but maybe can be pushed a little higher) and everything else is a total waste of hops.

I read all about this many years ago, and if I can find out where, I'll post some more info.

In other words, don't worry! Your beer should be fine!

 

[peterj]

I understand this but this is what the recipe calls for. In BeerSmith, if I put in the recipe for Pliny The Elder directly from Russian River it comes out to 234.9 IBU. It says in actuality it's something like 90-100 IBU, so there is something off with the calculation.

No there's nothing off with the calculation, he was just saying wort can't physically have more than around 100 IBU worth of isomerized alpha acids in solution. So he was saying that anything that is calculated as more than that is a waste. That's why Pliny is calculated at around 250 IBU or so, but when the finished beer is tested it comes out to be something like 80-90 IBU. The calculators don't take into account the saturation limit of the wort.

As for your beer I think you'll be just fine as far as bitterness because you most likely reached that saturation limit even with the halved bittering addition. I do think there is probably some flavor that is contributed by that enormous bittering addition, but you probably won't miss it too much because there are so many late hop additions that cover up what little flavor comes through from the 90 minute addition.

 

[Calichusetts]

I feel like I'm either reading this wrong or there is some off info in here.

First, there is a limit to our ability to taste bitterness, which is about 100 IBU. Yet IBU is not directly correlated to taste and aroma. In otherwords, we can use hops later in the boil to get more taste and aroma, even if we break the threshold for IBU we can taste.

 

[lititzbrew]

No there's nothing off with the calculation, he was just saying wort can't physically have more than around 100 IBU worth of isomerized alpha acids in solution. So he was saying that anything that is calculated as more than that is a waste. That's why Pliny is calculated at around 250 IBU or so, but when the finished beer is tested it comes out to be something like 80-90 IBU. The calculators don't take into account the saturation limit of the wort.

As for your beer I think you'll be just fine as far as bitterness because you most likely reached that saturation limit even with the halved bittering addition. I do think there is probably some flavor that is contributed by that enormous bittering addition, but you probably won't miss it too much because there are so many late hop additions that cover up what little flavor comes through from the 90 minute addition.

According to John Palmer's "How to Brew" any flavors and aroma from the bittering hops get boiled off, so yes, this is what I've always understood. I've read numerous threads about this and I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but I guess I'm curious to know, is this actually true? I'm just trying to understand what makes great beers great. Like Pliny the Elder, Vinnie Cilurzo is obviously one of the most renowned professional brewers of all time, so why is he adding an insane amount of unnecessary bittering hops?

 

[peterj]

I feel like I'm either reading this wrong or there is some off info in here.

First, there is a limit to our ability to taste bitterness, which is about 100 IBU. Yet IBU is not directly correlated to taste and aroma. In otherwords, we can use hops later in the boil to get more taste and aroma, even if we break the threshold for IBU we can taste.

That's right, but there is no way to break that IBU threshold for taste because there is another threshold for the solubility of isomerized alpha acids in the wort which is around 100 IBU. So there would be no way to make a beer with more IBUs than that, so there is no way to test if we can taste over 100 IBUs in beer.

But there is no solubility threshold for flavor and aroma that I know of. So the more late addition hops you add, the more flavor and aroma you get. I would imagine there is a point of diminshing returns though.

According to John Palmer's "How to Brew" any flavors and aroma from the bittering hops get boiled off, so yes, this is what I've always understood. I've read numerous threads about this and I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but I guess I'm curious to know, is this actually true? I'm just trying to understand what makes great beers great. Like Pliny the Elder, Vinnie Cilurzo is obviously one of the most renowned professional brewers of all time, so why is he adding an insane amount of unnecessary bittering hops?

That's not quite true. There is flavor that will come through from a bittering addition, but it isn't a whole lot. Most of the flavor gets boiled off. But I would think with such a massive bittering addition there would be some flavor contribution. But like I said it will probably not be very noticeable especially with all of the late addition hops.

Jamil talks about flavor coming through from the bittering addition in a few of his podcasts. It's one reason he cites for using more of something like East Kent Golding in a beer with only a 60 minute addition rather than less of a high alpha acid hop. Because there will be some flavor contribution by the EKG. It's also a reason for using a high alpha hop in something you don't want much hop flavor in like a spiced or fruit beer.