Foamy Pours from New Setup

[esabasard]

I have read information and tried searching but I still can't figure out why I am getting foamy pours so I thought I would start a new thread. I apologize for the wordiness, but I want to try to figure this out.

I recently bought a Kegco 309, 3 tap kegerator with perlick 525SS and 5' 3/16" line. My thought was to buy something commercial and get everything balanced before putting homebrew on it so that I could reduce a variable. The commercial beer is a local brewery 1/6 barrel. I plugged it in and hooked everything up to 10 psi and 35*F. A day later I poured a beer and it was good, 1" head.

A couple of days later I poured a pint and it was 75% foam. I started reading and adjusting things, temperature down, pressure down etc. I then decided at the advice of many threads here to try longer lines. I swapped the 5' lines for 12' lines, still 3/16". The connectors are now sankey to a 90* elbow to a mfl screw fitting where it was sankey to barb. The extra beer line is coiled on top of the keg. Still more than 50% foam on a pint.

I read that I may be causing harm by having the pressure too low. I adjusted up to 12psi, still 35*F. After a few days of sitting, it seems to be better, maybe 40% foam on a pint. Last night I saw the temp is 37*F at the top of the keg and 32.5*F at the bottom. When I open the tap there is a noticeable hiss sound (pressure I assume) and then the beer flows. It starts clear and then becomes cloudy and the glass starts filling with foam.

I have read so much and have gotten so confused about what to do next. What can I look for or change to help with this?

 

[Rivenin]

my tower does that same thing... i don't have that specific model of kegerator (it's an old wine fridge that i added a tower to) but basically, if you pour out the first few ounces, than pour, does it get better?
Better yet, does the 2nd glass fill up just fine?

my issue is the tower is obviously a bit warmer than the rest of the lines for a few seconds while the beer is just starting to pour, so it's hitting a bit warmer lines. Also going to maybe a foot of empty lines, so if i pour out the first 3-4 ounces into a seperate glass (all foam) if it's been awhile (first beer of the night, or it's been a few hours) it's fine after that.
12 PSI at that many feet should be more than enough resistance.

 

[day_trippr]

Add a small (80mm) dc fan that runs continuously and stirs the air inside the kegerator. Keeping the coiled beer lines cool is 90% of the battle as the amount of beer contained within the beer lines in the tower column and the faucets is negligible - like a half ounce or less.

I actually have three small fans running in my keezer. I have a 40mm fan blowing air up into the tower through a 1" ID tube, an 80mm down on the floor (barely visible between the left pair of kegs in the foreground) driving air into an Eva-Dry mini-desiccant dryer, and a 120mm on the hump running about half-speed just stirring the keezer air. The result of a half-dozen years of keezer evolution

Cheers!

 

[esabasard]

Thanks for the advice. I was thinking of building a tower cooler this weekend based on a plan I found on this site. Is it a better use of time to skip that and just do the kegerator fan? Would it be feasible to pipe air into the tower and T off before the tower to recirc in the fridge too, or would all the air go to the fridge?

 

[esabasard]

Today I poured a perfect pint, I was very surprised. I looked and I'm out of gas. It's only been a week since I filled it. I must have a leak. I don't know what to make of getting a great pour with no gas though.

 

[Rivenin]

overcarbonation is a usual culprit

 

[Hello]

Today I poured a perfect pint, I was very surprised. I looked and I'm out of gas. It's only been a week since I filled it. I must have a leak. I don't know what to make of getting a great pour with no gas though.

Perfect pour due to no gas usually means the pressure is too high for the temp and distance of beer line.

That is my only guess. I also think that when you get into kegging, it is best to accept that you will likely lose your first tank of CO2 prematurely. It doesn't happen to everyone, but I think it happens very very often.

 

[esabasard]

I am ok with the CO2 I have lost. I pulled everything out and put it underwater when I got the tank refilled. I had a few leak points. Those should be better now.

I still dont understand why I get foam. I have 12' of 3/16" line, 12psi and 35*F setpoint (35 up top, 32 at the bottom). I have a fan that I need to wire up, maybe that will help.

The latest pours from Sunday are different. it starts out nice and clear for a couple of ounces then turns cloudy for the remainder of the glass. In the end I have about half a glass of head. It settles relatively quickly and tastes fine once it does. The next glass is about the same. Definitely not a huge difference between the first and second. Is it that my expectations are just too high?

 

[Rivenin]

here is what i would do.

de-pressureize the keg, at least most of the way if not all the way.
turn the CO2 tank pressure to 0
put a glass under the tap
put the tap to ON
slowly turn the pressure up until it looks like it is pouring normally
chug beer
keep the tank on that pressure
wait a few minutes
pour another pint

Also, if you watch the line inside of the kegerator from the KEG to the faucet, is it clear? or does it show foam?
i had a keg recently that was foaming from the keg, not the faucet... there was a piece of hop in the disconnect that was causing issues... cleaned the QD out and all was well.

 

[Rivenin]

sometimes the first pint is foamy indeed - the rest shortly after should come out perfectly or damn near close

 

[esabasard]

I will try your test and also take a look at the hose next time I pull a pint. I am using a commercial keg from a local microbrewery. I was hoping that would simplify things, but since I didn't carbonate it myself I seem to now have an added variable.

 

[monkeybox]

Wow. Almost could have written this myself. I have the same setup, though I haven't replaced the lines. The first couple pours off the commercial keg were perfect. Now I'm getting foam.

I've been attempting colder temps at lower pressure, but I've just set it back to 38* at 10psi, and am hoping for the best.

I'll let you know if I figure it out.





Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[esabasard]

As an update, I've added a fan and now have a much more consistent temp from top to bottom, but I am not coming the tower yet. I had a friend over last night and we had a few drinks. It was about the same from first beer to last. Nearly half foam on each. I have the temp set at 37° but noticed last night that it is really much colder, about 33°. Is that too cold and am I causing the foam by being near freezing? We both noticed that it comes out of the tap clear at first then gets cloudy.

 

[Rivenin]

funky, are you moving the keg around at all during this?
Shouldn't be a problem with it being too cold FYI unless its' actually frozen... i've had some ICE cold beers (PBRs and the like) from bars and didn't have any foaming isssues.

can you have someone pour a beer while you look at the beer lines and see where the foaming starts?

 

[esabasard]

The keg is not moving any during this. I have watched as it pours and it foams in the line pretty much from the time it first leaves the keg. That lines up to what I see at the tap, clear for a couple of ounces, then cloudy. I am now at 37° and 10 psi.

 

[Rivenin]

it sounds like something is in the coupler. i'd take it all apart and scrub the ever loving hell out of it - when that happened on mine there was a small hop particle stuck in the coupler.

 

[esabasard]

I totally don't know what's going on, but it's happening in two different beers, one home brew, one commercial. That makes me think it's not something in the coupler. I am also seeing air bubbles in the beer line coiled on top of the kegs.

 

[passedpawn]

Get 10' of tubing, a picnic tap, and a quick disconnect for your keg and bypass your tap. Leave the tubing coiled up on the keg overnight and pour a beer from that.

It's a cheap test. Troubleshooting any problem: continue to split the problem in half until there is only one possibility left.

 

[monkeybox]

I totally don't know what's going on, but it's happening in two different beers, one home brew, one commercial. That makes me think it's not something in the coupler. I am also seeing air bubbles in the beer line coiled on top of the kegs.

So, fwiw, I've discovered that my K309 came with a bad regulator. I'd been having a hard time setting the pressure, as it kept creeping up. I finally turned off all gas to the kegs (I also have a commercial and a homebrew keg) and dialed the regulator all the way down. After about an hour, it registered at 10psi. Overnight, it was back up to 30psi.

They're shipping me a new regulator, and I expect that it will solve my issues. I think I just overcarbonated both kegs.

 

[JuanMoore]

I totally don't know what's going on, but it's happening in two different beers, one home brew, one commercial. That makes me think it's not something in the coupler. I am also seeing air bubbles in the beer line coiled on top of the kegs.

There are only two possible causes of this symptom. One is that your serving pressure/temp combination doesn't match the carb level of the beer. For commercial beers you really should find out what the carb level is so that you know what serving pressure to use. If you can't find out from the brewery, it's usually safe to assume ~2.7vol. The other possible cause is a bad seal allowing gas to enter the liquid lines. This happens at the liquid out diptube o-ring (corny) or in the spear valve (sankey) or sometimes in the coupler (sankey).

So, fwiw, I've discovered that my K309 came with a bad regulator. I'd been having a hard time setting the pressure, as it kept creeping up. I finally turned off all gas to the kegs (I also have a commercial and a homebrew keg) and dialed the regulator all the way down. After about an hour, it registered at 10psi. Overnight, it was back up to 30psi.

They're shipping me a new regulator, and I expect that it will solve my issues. I think I just overcarbonated both kegs.

You'll probably need to degas your kegs quite a bit before you get a decent pour. For a corny keg you can push gas at a low pressure through the liquid out diptube while holding the PRV open. The gas bubbling up through the beer will knock a lot of the carbonation out of solution. Just make sure you put the gas line on a beer QD rather than getting a gas QD stuck on the beer out post fitting. You can do the same with a sankey keg, but you have to disassemble the coupler and remove the check valves first.

 

[esabasard]

Thanks for the advice. If it is at a high carb level then can I just shut off the regulator and bleed pressure to bring it down? Will that cause any other issues?

For the second possibility, should I just spray with starsan to look for bubbles? I had assumed that since I've not seen any beer leaking then it was sealed.

 

[JuanMoore]

Thanks for the advice. If it is at a high carb level then can I just shut off the regulator and bleed pressure to bring it down? Will that cause any other issues?

That's probably the best way to do it, but it can take bleeding it many many times over the course of several days to get it down to where you need it. I only mentioned the other method because it's very fast and most people are impatient.

For the second possibility, should I just spray with starsan to look for bubbles? I had assumed that since I've not seen any beer leaking then it was sealed.

No. The type of bad seal I'm referring to only causes an internal leak, where gas enters the beer line either in the post fitting (corny) in the spear valve (sankey) or in the coupler (sankey). There wouldn't be any gas escaping to create a visible leak on the outside, just gas leaking into the beer line.

For a corny keg simply take the liquid post fitting off, remove the diptube, and inspect everything. It's usually just a bad diptube o-ring, but you should also inspect the two surfaces that mate against the o-ring (the underside of the diptube flange and the top of the threaded post on the keg) to make sure there's not a nick/scratch/burr that could compromise the seal . For sankey kegs it's a little harder to describe, but essentially you just need to make sure that the seals in the spear and coupler are all in good shape.

If you're using used corny kegs, and haven't already replaced all of the o-rings yet, you really should consider doing so. Even if they look ok, replacing them is cheap insurance against leaks. You can buy them in bulk from McMaster Carr really inexpensively. There's a link to the thread with the part #'s in the FAQ's sticky at the top of this forum.

 

[esabasard]

On Friday night I bled the pressure from the kegs by shutting off the air supply and pulling the valve until it stopped. Saturday I replaced the kegco regulator with a taprite and replaced the air lines and installed a new three port distributor. I checked for leaks and hooked it up at a little over 10 psi. Today both kegs are pouring perfectly. We had family over for a cookout and it was great to be able to not worry about bad beer. I am still not totally sure what the issue was, but I'm leaving to the regulator now. Anyway, thanks for all the advice.