Floaties...what are they and is it okay?

[Archer]

Started a 3 gal batch in July using store bought pasteurized juice, pectic enzyme and EC1118 yeast; racked to secondary about a month later. Now after sitting secondary for another month I notice these light colored floating clumps on the surface. I hope its not mold! See pix. What is this and, more importantly, does it pose any issues or concerns for me? Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[Yooper]

Most wine and cider makers abhor headspace, and will rack to the correcly sized vessel, and top up appropriately. one of the dangers of too much headspace is contamination (and the other is oxidation) an here is an example of we we top up, unfortunately.

It looks like early signs of contamination. You could try dosing with campden tablets (one per gallon, crushed and dissolved), and racking to a new vessel with no headspace. It may help, and fix the issue, but it might not.

 

[Archer]

Sorry to ask what may be a dumb question, but how does this bit of head space contribute to contamination? I also thought the head space was filled with CO2, as it was bubbling a bit in my stopper after I racked it. Did I leave it in secondary too long before bottling?

 

[DisplacedSailor]

I'll try to answer best I can. Because it is in secondary and isn't fermenting as actively as it was before, the head space has more oxygen than CO2 allowing for the bad stuff to develop. The usual recommendation for secondary is to top off within an inch or two of the bung.

 

[WVMJ]

Also, the oxidation thing, your wall paint is a very nice color, but it makes your cider look brownish, if you could take pics on a lighter background it would be better so the color of oxidation can be determined. Did you add sulfites before you bottled? WVMJ

 

[Archer]

Here are a couple more pix with better background. No sulfites added, yet. If this is some sort of film yeast, and I add the campden tablets, I take it I will not be able to bottle carbonate, as the campden will kill all the yeast, right? Any other options? I really appreciate your help.

 

[Archer]

Possibly another dumb question, but I don't want to make this mistake ever again...if I start with 3 gal carboy, when I rack and lose the lees and maybe a few ounces from the bottom, what am I supposed to rack to that will be of a size that won't permit the head space? Thanks

 

[Yooper]

Campden doesn't kill yeast, and winemakers use it routinely to prevent oxidation. Most winemakers will try to keep 50 ppm or so in their wine and/or cider.

There is WAY too much headspace in there, and now it looks like an infection so I'd hurry up and add the campden (probably even more than the normal 1-per-gallon for usual protection) and rack to a smaller vessel to try to save it.

 

[Yooper]

Possibly another dumb question, but I don't want to make this mistake ever again...if I start with 3 gal carboy, when I rack and lose the lees and maybe a few ounces from the bottom, what am I supposed to rack to that will be of a size that won't permit the head space? Thanks

Either make a bigger batch (start in a bucket with 3.5 gallons), or top up with cider or water or even wine or finished hard cider.

Winemakers will typically rack 3-4 times over 6 months or so, and top up with each racking. A good thing to use is a similar wine or cider, but if it's your first batch that's not possible of course. Sometimes, like with dandelion wine, I'll use a little commercial pinot grigio (which is most similar) to top up.

For my current batches, I make a little more and then fill a wine bottle or growler with the extras (you can get bungs to fit) and use that for topping up.

 

[Archer]

Many thanks, Yooper. Will do. Assuming after a few days following campden then racking, and then I can bottle?

 

[Yooper]

Many thanks, Yooper. Will do. Assuming after a few days following campden then racking, and then I can bottle?

Normally, yes, but I would be hesitant to bottle if there is an infection process because fermentation might continue/restart with whatever the infection is.

 

[Archer]

Okay. Will rack to proper size/top off, then hit it with campden and let it sit for awhile to see if anything else develops before bottling. Thanks!

 

[ehartman]

Let me know if the campden tablets work out for you, I had a couple 1 gallon jugs I was fermenting and letting then sit awhile. I just noticed similar floaties, a bit smaller. I always wondered about headspace but can't say I've ever seen it brought up or mentioned as a concern before in my research. I've had a couple over zealous batches get into the air lock so I was leaving more room on the top just in case....my pictures aren't as easy to see as yours, Ill get some more when it's light out.

 

[Archer]

Looks like you have too much head space to me.

The campden seems to have knocked it out in my case, so I will go ahead and bottle it, but I don't think I will really know until after i taste it a few months from now. I can tell very little while its in bottles. Good luck.

 

[tomb1]

Is topping up with finished cider the best option? I've been leaving too much headspace, based on this thread. Wouldn't more juice cloud up a clearing cider and delay full fermentation?

 

[Yooper]

Is topping up with finished cider the best option? I've been leaving too much headspace, based on this thread. Wouldn't more juice cloud up a clearing cider and delay full fermentation?

Yes, but it needs to be topped up.

Either make more at the beginning, just for topping up, or rack to a smaller carboy/jug. It's important to match the batch size with the vessel size once fermentation slows down.