Flip the grain bill = session beer?

[americancracka]

Looking to make a hoppy beer with low ABV.

Based on partial mash brewing:
If I use 4+ lbs of mash grain and 3.3 lbs of DME what will the beer be like?

I know I need DME for the hops and I know my efficiency will be low. But won't the excessive grains add the body and flavor needed while keeping my ABV down?

3.3 lbs DME
4 lbs caramel 40
1 lbs of cara III
Tons of Hops from mash to fermentation.

Thanks for your time and any comments.

 

[prpromin]

Way too much specialty malt there. Do a search on the site and see what other people have brewed. That'll give you a pretty good idea of what might work for you. From there, mess with ingredients how you like. Check this one out, for example:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/lazy-day-session-ipa-2nd-place-382115/

Tons of hops and half the specialty malt (and his is a 12 gallon batch).

I'd also suggest grabbing a program like Beersmith or one of the similar, free programs. You can plug your numbers in and see what you'll come up with gravity wise.

 

[americancracka]

I've done what other people have done many times and I have BeerSmith. Thanks for your input but I'm still looking for a reason why a recipe like the one above may not work.

 

[duboman]

Because you have 5lbs of specialty grains, that's why. Not to mention that the DME has a blend of specialty grains in it as well.

Just because you have beersmith doesn't mean your recipe will work, its a tool to help create recipes and calculations, it doesn't mean or tell you the recipe will work

Typically in a hoppy session ale specialty grains will be 10% +/- of the grist. I'd suggest you do some more research on proven recipes for what you're looking for and see how a typical grain bill lays out

 

[Calder]

The speciality malts will add unfermentable sugars, and a cloying taste when in large quantities.

With that recipe you will likely have an OG of about 1.048 (reasonable for a session beer), but will have an FG of about 1.026, which is more appropiate for a big imperial stout or sweet barleywine; neither styles are showcases for hops. And your alcohol will be about 2.5%.

Try working with something like:

- 5 lbs DME
- 0.5 lbs crystal
- hops as you want.

Should have OG about 1.047, FG of 1.012, and 4.5% abv.

If you like it drier (I think it helps the hops), replace a half pound of DME with a half pound of table sugar too

 

[americancracka]

I have not loaded this into BeerSmith and I know most recipes call for a lower % of specialty grains.

Here is my question again: If I use 4+ lbs of mash grain and 3.3 lbs of DME what will the beer be like?

I appreciate the good facts about what is always done, but I want to know what will the beer be like?

Calder, thanks for telling me I could end up with a cloying taste. I'm not new to brewing, I just never made a batch with the grain bill flipped and wanted to know what the outcome would be.

duboman, thanks for the response, but telling me it's a bad idea and not a proven recipe isn't helpful for this specific question. I agree with your statements but they don't answer my question. Cheers

 

[Yooper]

I've done what other people have done many times and I have BeerSmith. Thanks for your input but I'm still looking for a reason why a recipe like the one above may not work.

You can defintely mash 4 pounds of grain- and that can make for a much better beer. But using 4 pounds of crystal malt is what will hurt. Use 3 pounds of US two-row, and 1 pound of crystal, and you're golden.

Crystal malt is something that is great, like salt in food, for flavoring in a beer.

It provides color and flavor and richness, and can be used in some beer styles for as much as 15% of the grainbill (like in an American amber). However, it is not a base malt, and won't "convert" and in large amounts is terrible. I guess in that way it's like salt, also. A teaspoon of salt in your spaghetti sauce is great- but 4 cups is not. Think of crystal malt that way- a "seasoning" and not the "sauce".

Edit- just noticed the pound of Cara III. That's also a mistake. Carafa III is great- and an ounce or two will go a LONG way. It depends on what you're making but that's like putting 10 pounds of onions in a stew, instead of one. In cases like this, "less is more" really does apply. You do not want a beer that is 60% non enzymatic grains.

 

[Yooper]

The other thing to remember is that the "recipe" you posted is not a partial mash. Crystal malt and carafa are not base grains, and so that is an extract batch with a boatload of specialty grains.

A partial mash is a recipe where there are base malt grains in the recipe, and that is what is mashed. Beersmith has icons for warning you when you have a partial mash recipe checked but grains that must be mashed, but not when you have only specialty grains (no mash). So what you have is NOT a partial mash at all, but instead an extract recipe with 3 pounds too much of specialty grains.

If you tweak it by changing out the carafa III (get rid of it if you're not making a stout), and using 1 pound of crystal malt and either adding two-row to the mash or using more DME, you'd have a good start on a very nice session recipe.

 

[dkevinb]

What Yooper said. That much Crystal malt will make it undrinkably sweet. I used a pound of Crystal 80L in a 5 gallon batch of ESB, along with 6 lbs of LME, 1 lb of DME, and 1/2 lb of Carapils and I found it too sweet for my taste. 4 lbs of caramel plus a lb of Cara III to only 3.3 lbs of DME would be like adding a cup and a half of sugar to a cup of coffee.

 

[paperairplane]

You want a nice session pale ale partial mash, do this:

3# marris otter malt and put in a bag (paint bag, nylon, whatever)
Add to 1 gallon water at 150*F and mash for 1 hour.
Remove the bag and squeeze out all the goodness.

Add this wort to your water to hit preboil volume. Add your DME and proceed with boil.

Marris Otter is killer in pale ale. Adds some nice color and biscuit flavors. It's my favorite base malt by far.

Or do 3# of 2 row and 1/2 pound of crystal 40

 

[paperairplane]

I don't know what flip the grain bill means either - are you saying why not use base malt in specialty malt quantity and use specialty malt in base quantity?

Cause if that's the question, it will totally work. You will end up with wort and you can totally ferment it.

It's going to suck, but it will work.

 

[americancracka]

Thanks for the great comments. I know the question was odd, but I wanted to know what the end results would be and you answered that. My local homebrew shop thinks I'm crazy too so you're not alone. Knowledge is power and you'll never know if you don't research all the possibilities. Thanks again...now back to trolling.