Flat lager

[Griffter99]

Hi

I've brewed a lovely tasting lager however it is flat. I have added more CO2 using a small canister bulb - this has provided the lager with a better head but the beer itself is still lifeless. Anything else I can do? I'd appreciate your advice.

Thanks

 

[Smellyglove]

What was your carbonation levels? If it's lifeless then there's not enough Co2 in it. If the head just drops, that's another deal.

 

[BigFloyd]

More info needed.

How did you carbonate?

For how long?

At what temp?

 

[Griffter99]

I'm a bit new to this so not sure how I would have carbonated - however I did my 1st stage fermentation for approx 3 weeks. Initially at 22-24 degrees then cooler at 18. I then transferred into a pressure keg where's it's been standing for the last 3 weeks at 16-18 degrees.

Thanks

 

[solbes]

Are you carbonating in your keg using the small 16g cannisters? Assuming this is in a 5 gallong keg, you will need a few of those to achieve your carbonation level. They work for carbonating (it is CO2 afterall), but are probably more cost effective for refilling head space during dispensing.

BTW, fermenting beer in the 22-24 F range sounds high for ales much less lagers. Just my two pennies. Now that you are in the lagering phase, I would drop your temps to the 2-5 C range if you have the means to do so. Helps drop out all of the yeast and proteins to really clean up the lager. You can also reach a higher carbonation level with less CO2 pressure at a lower temp.

 

[Griffter99]

That's a great help thank you very much!
I don't really have the facilities to drop the temperature that low but will have a think

Thanks again

 

[BigFloyd]

More pressure is needed to carbonate successfully at higher temps vs. lower temps due to the solubility of gases.

Also, if you used an actual lager yeast strain, your ferment temps were way too high. It will have a lot of unwanted flavors.

 

[Griffter99]

Hi, when you talk about dropping the temperature for fermenting, at what stage should I do this? I've just mixed a new batch and added the yeast. The instructions say to leave at warm temp for 4-6 days or until Hydrometer level drops to below 1006.
Then it says to bottle or keg and put in a cool place to clear.
Do I wait until that time or should I be putting in a cooler place as soon as the yeast is added?
Thanks

 

[Smellyglove]

The safe play is to keep it at fermentation temps for about 3-4 weeks. If you are unsure of the temp to keep it at you could look up the yeast on the manufacturers site and pick a number in the middle of the recommended fermentation temp range. When you'recoming up to the 3 week day mark, take two gravity readings over three days, if it reads the same on both samples (which it most likely will), you are good to bottle.
Idk what yeast you used, but unless it's a "staller", this procedure is safe.

 

[chickypad]

Hi, when you talk about dropping the temperature for fermenting, at what stage should I do this? I've just mixed a new batch and added the yeast. The instructions say to leave at warm temp for 4-6 days or until Hydrometer level drops to below 1006.
Then it says to bottle or keg and put in a cool place to clear.
Do I wait until that time or should I be putting in a cooler place as soon as the yeast is added?
Thanks

That 4-6 days is when the bulk of fermentation happens and that's the crucial time for temp control, where most lager yeasts prefer the 9-13*C range. You might have had a "lager" kit where they actually gave you a clean ale yeast, so you do need to know what yeast you are using and check it's temp range. Though the bulk of most healthy fermentations will be done in that time frame it's best to leave the beer on the yeast for a little longer to let it clear and let the yeast clean up, which it sounds like you did.

And did you add priming sugar or are you trying to carb with the cannisters as solbes was asking? If naturally carbing with sugar then 16-18* may be a little cool so you may need more time or try bringing it up to 21-22*. If you are carbing solely with cannisters then I suspect you need a bunch more (and as BigFloyd points out will be easier to do cold).

 

[Griffter99]

Yes this was a beer kit that everything was just packaged up. I did add priming sugar as I transferred it into keg. Is it at this stage I should have put it in colder temps?

 

[passedpawn]

Kit instructions are notoriously poor.

Please let us know what type of yeast you are using. In a kit like that, it's possible it isn't even a lager yeast. If it's not (i.e., if it's an ale yeast), warmer fermentation temps are required, and you will get flavors in the beer that would not be expected in a pilsner (lager).

As stated above, if it's truly a lager yeast then your wort should be under 12C when you pitch the yeast. Fermenting at cold temperature results in a very clean beer, which is typically what one is looking for in a pilsner. You also should be considering a way to fully oxygenate your wort before pitching that yeast (after boiling, there will be no O2 in the wort). Finally, one packet of dry yeast probably isn't enough yeast. This is why many lager brewers will grow more yeast (starter) before they pitch - to increase the cell count and ensure a rapid and full fermentation of the beer. Yes, all of these things are important to make a great lager.

 

[chickypad]

Yes this was a beer kit that everything was just packaged up. I did add priming sugar as I transferred it into keg. Is it at this stage I should have put it in colder temps?

No, now that you are trying to get the beer to carbonate you want it warm. 16-18 is a little cool for that although I would have thought at 3 wks it would have been there. You may try warming it up to more like 21-22 as I said before. It could also be that your pressure barrel is not completely sealed (I'm thinking you are in the UK and have one of those plastic barrels with a spout?). I would check for leaks, probably by hitting it with the CO2 cannister then spraying the lid and fittings with soapy water or starsan. If there's a leak you'll need to fix it then prime again with sugar. Once cabonated give it hits of CO2 from your cannister to serve and maintain pressure.

Then for the next batch find out for sure what kind of yeast you have before fermenting. If they give you an ale yeast like we are suspecting then I would flip your schedule - active fermentation at 16-19 and carbonating at the higher temp. If you really are using a lager yeast then you'll want to ferment cooler, look into yeast starter, etc. etc. as above.

 

[Griffter99]

Thanks guys you've been a great help, unfortunately I no longer have the yeast packet but next time I will definitely make a note