First timer - deciding to do AG method

[taprackbang]

Good afternoon, after seeing numerous YT videos and in-depth internet research I've decided to start with the AG (all grain) method, and it seems (IMHO) less messy compared to extraction. However, I have a few questions apart from what I've seen and read, that hasn't been addressed:

1. During the recirculation/vorloff process (batch sparging), is it time sensitive/crucial that I need to drain into the boil tank? Does the mash temperature need to stay or remain in a range while I'm vorloff-ing/re-culating? (Hope this makes sense)

2. Will the beer quality/taste be better the more I vorloff/re-circulate?

3. With the continuous sparging method, will that not "water down" the wort. I assume perhaps the wort is "heavier" (like oil/water) than the continuos sparge water that it won't contaminate/infiltrate into the wort?

4. I really want to make a lager, but from what I am researching/reading the lager-ing process seems little more crucial with keeping the storage temperature constant. Should I just brew an ale as a first brew?

Thank you for your time.

 

[Alex4mula]

Seems you have done your homework! I think doing some ales first will help you see/learn the fermentation process to better prepare you for a lager. I started a little over a year ago and after 33 brews I do want to do a lager soon. Problem is it will occupy my cold crash freezer for too long so I need to build inventory

 

[Deadalus]

I don't batch sparge and I think you might be leaning towards brew in a bag (BIAB) so I won't answer 1 & 2.

3. Yes the wort coming out of the MT will be watered down from the fresh sparge water but that all mixes together in the boil kettle. Then you boil off some to reach your target volume.

4. It's important to keep your beer fermenting within the temperature range of the yeast you select to use. If you don't have somewhere to lager then brew an ale. If you have a cold basement, a garage or root cellar for instance, maybe lagering wouldn't be too difficult.

 

[RM-MN]

1. During the recirculation/vorloff process (batch sparging), is it time sensitive/crucial that I need to drain into the boil tank? Does the mash temperature need to stay or remain in a range while I'm vorloff-ing/re-culating? (Hope this makes sense)

2. Will the beer quality/taste be better the more I vorloff/re-circulate?

The point of the vorlauf is to keep lots of grain particles from going into the boil kettle. You don't have to keep all the particles out so don't get too hung up on that. A couple pitchers to return to the kettle and then just let it run. There is no evidence that more than the minimum helps anything. You should see what us BIAB brewers put into the boil kettle. We still get clear beer.

 

[gunhaus]

1. no
2. no
3. yea . . but. It is up to you but I would start with a well known recipe and use a simple batch sparge ( Mash, drain, batch sparge, drain. Just to keep it simple and easy to start.
4. Yes on the ale. I do not know your tastes, but a simple blond ale, or pale ale with only a couple of ingredients, and only one or two hops is an easy and almost full proof way to start. I would recommend something with a forgiving dry yeast like US-05, or Notttingham to save the extra step of the liquid starter as well. KISS principle on your first couple batches.

Centennial Blond, or Ed Worts Haus Pale make good training wheel beers

 

[eric19312]

+1 to everything @gunhaus said.

If you are doing BIAB I would ask one question..how big is your boil kettle? If it is big enough I would just do full volume no sparge and don't mess with all that vourlafing and crap. I think a 10 gallon tank is big enough for reasonable strength 5 gallon batch.

 

[mattdee1]

My $0.02:

1. During the recirculation/vorloff process (batch sparging), is it time sensitive/crucial that I need to drain into the boil tank? Does the mash temperature need to stay or remain in a range while I'm vorloff-ing/re-culating? (Hope this makes sense)

I believe your concern here is whether or not you need to mind the temperature of your wort between the mash and the boil. The answer is, letting the temperature drop/fluctuate during this time is not going to create any negative impacts/flavors in your beer. In fact, some brewers set up their mash in the evening and let it go all night so they can hit the ground running with the boil in the morning.

2. Will the beer quality/taste be better the more I vorloff/re-circulate?

In this hobby, there are LOTS of opportunities to spend time fussing over things that don't matter, so look for ways to eliminate those. This is one of those things. There are probably books written in the 90s that make a big deal out of vorlauf; ignore them, and look at what the thousands of homebrewers on the internet are doing.

3. With the continuous sparging method, will that not "water down" the wort. I assume perhaps the wort is "heavier" (like oil/water) than the continuos sparge water that it won't contaminate/infiltrate into the wort?

Batch sparging is the way to go at the homebrew level. Fly sparging takes longer, requires more equipment, and is much more error prone.

4. I really want to make a lager, but from what I am researching/reading the lager-ing process seems little more crucial with keeping the storage temperature constant. Should I just brew an ale as a first brew?

I don't think a lager makes a very good first brew, but if you have temperature control capability, go ahead and do one if you want. Just make sure you research fermentation schedules and the like.

There are 2 main reasons I think a basic ale would be a better place to start: 1) lagers tend to take longer, and new brewers are really impatient, which can cause problems unless extreme restraint is exercised; and 2) lagers tend to shoot for really clean flavors, so there's not much there to hide any mistakes you might make on your first attempt.

Lastly, I'd urge you to not do a hoppy pale ale or IPA either. Again, you can try it, but you'll probably be disappointed because IPAs really benefit from "next level" process enhancements (e.g. water profiles and oxygen avoidance).

Good luck

 

[mirthfuldragon]

My $0.02:
Lastly, I'd urge you to not do a hoppy pale ale or IPA either. Again, you can try it, but you'll probably be disappointed because IPAs really benefit from "next level" process enhancements (e.g. water profiles and oxygen avoidance).
Good luck

+1. Everyone's first beer should be a hefeweizen - not overly sensitive to oxidation, and if it gets's a bit cold it will come out clovey, and if it gets a bit warm it will come out banana-y. If not a hefe, then a cream ale, etc. OG under 1.050, IBUs under 40.

It's one thing to understand the process, but it is entirely another to get it down-pat and smooth. My third or fourth beer was a pliny clone, and eventually I just threw it all away, which means $50 down the drain.

 

[cmac62]

You could use a kolsh yeast for your first brew. This is an ale yeast, but very clean and lager like. I also recommend using a simple recipe and only one or two hops. I would even consider a smash (single malt and single hop) this is a great way to learn what different malt and hops actually taste like.

 

[madscientist451]

Since you are just starting off, get a BIAB bag do a full volume mash and skip all the complicated recirculation/vorloff/sparging. Cut the standard 5 gallon batch in half, use a strike water calculator to determine your strike temp, wrap the kettle up in an old coat and walk away for 2 hours or the whole day. When you get back, pull the bag out and turn up the heat, when it hits 168F, you can do a dunk sparge for a few minutes if you want to, or just skip it and go ahead and boil.
Take notes and make changes based on your kettle size and ingredients and likes/dislikes of the beer. Making wort is the easy part, don't over-think it. Put your energy into recipe selection, getting quality ingredients, taking care of your yeast and fermentation temperature and packaging your beer.
Happy Brewing!

 

[McKnuckle]

First, congrats on deciding to just brew beer the authentic way from the get-go.

You've gotten some good advice here for sure. Because of its technical, process-oriented nature, brewing wort gets a lot of focus among homebrewers, especially new ones. There are so many conflicting bits of information about which type of sparge is best, easiest, cheapest, etc. - or whether one needs a sparge at all!

So the answer really is, pick a method that you can easily imagine yourself doing - one that makes sense to your mind. For your first brew, do that. It will work fine, because all the methods are valid and proven. Want to try something different the next time? Well, then, please do. If you stick with this, eventually you will decide which technique you prefer.

If you choose to batch sparge, which is certainly easy and effective, then just vorlauf til the wort looks clear. There's nothing more to it. It's dirt simple, and takes no more than a few minutes, during which time it makes no difference what temperature the wort is at.

The best advice is always DON'T RUSH. As in don't rush anything. No rush to get the wort into the kettle (or something will ruin it!). No rush to pitch yeast before the wort is cooled down appropriately (it's ruined!). And especially, no rush to bottle the beer. Patience is your best skill.

Measure volumes and temperatures carefully, because they really matter. A crappy thermometer that's off by 10 degrees will not cut it. Ditto for eyeing out volumes and guesstimating them. Nope, volumes matter a lot in brewing, so find a way to manage them effectively.

Finally, just do it. It's only completely unfamiliar the very first time.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

What kind of equipment do you have, or will you be buying new? Your process will depend on the equipment.

I'd recommend a Blonde Ale. Basic grain bill, no late hop additions, and it's very drinkable. It will give you a get opportunity to test out your system, get your boil-off rate, etc.

 

[mattdee1]

If you choose to batch sparge, which is certainly easy and effective, then just vorlauf til the wort looks clear. There's nothing more to it. It's dirt simple, and takes no more than a few minutes, during which time it makes no difference what temperature the wort is at.

Just as a point of reference, I mash in one of those orange Igloo coolers, fitted with a false bottom and valve, and I batch sparge exclusively. Here is my "vorlauf" process:

- crack valve roughly 1/4 open**
- collect about 2 quarts of wort, at which point it is already looking mostly clear
- divert the flow into a collection container to collect first runnings
- pour the 2 quarts back in the top of the cooler


** I keep the flow slow, at least at first, because if I just open the valve wide open it can compact the grain bed at the bottom of the cooler and clog up.

I struggle to even call this a process because I'm barely doing anything. And there's something to be said for a system where your beer moves forward on its journey without fallible intervention. This "vorlauf" step coupled with the ensuing batch sparge is very hands-off, reliable, and consistent. I feel like at this level, with batches of 10gal and smaller, fly sparging seems like more of a parlor trick than something that brings meaningful benefit.

 

[Snuffy]

+1.
It's one thing to understand the process, but it is entirely another to get it down-pat and smooth. My third or fourth beer was a pliny clone, and eventually I just threw it all away, which means $50 down the drain.

That makes me want to weep like a small child.

 

[Snuffy]

Here's my 2 cents:
First batch? Brew a simple extract ale to start. All-grain is good, but it's a far bigger PitA than extract. I would suggest an Irish Red or the Northern Brewer Patersbier. Simple, inexpensive kits with few hop adds, not finicky about fermentation temp and results will be impressive. No mashing no sparging no vorlauf no heavy bag of spent grain to dispose of and it'll cut your brew day down by 2 or 3 hours easy. Just sayin...

 

[McKnuckle]

The amount of money I've wasted by dumping mediocre homebrew pales in comparison to the mountain of superfluous vessels, chillers, and gadgets I've accumulated. It's just the evolution of trial and error, then eventually refining things to where you want them to be.

I started with the mantra of propane, 3 vessels, fly sparging, and 5 gallon batches. You can see what I use now in my signature. All electric, no sparge, "small" batch (I don't think so) and 2.5 gallon kegs. I have a combination of well-engineered commercial equipment and DIY bits and bobs.

Hopefully OP will re-join the conversation soon.