First Time Brewer, All grain, looking for criticism on potential setup

[cbfan87]

Hi guys,

I have never brewed before and don't have much interest in starting with extract. I also don't want to invest in equipment that I may outgrow quickly and have to invest in bigger stuff, Id rather take the hit upfront and save in the long run.

I'm quickly realizing that this can get expensive quick to do right. Here's a first go of what it seems would be a decent setup for an all grain brew.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how to cut cost? It seems pretty hard for me to believe that people can do this right with proper temp control for a couple hundred dollars.

2 glass 6.5 gallon corbay + stoppers = 85
chest freezer = 200
dual stage temp controller = 80 dollars
10 galon Hot Liqour tank and mash/Lauter tun with false bottom and valves and tubes (kit) = 230
SS Wort chiller (3/8”) + faucet adapter = 75
Propane Burner = 50.00
9 gallon brew pot = 58
Beer bottles 48 = 25
bottle capper = 12.99
bottle caps = 4.99
bottle rack = 16
bottle filler = 7
Siphon starter = 20.72
Digital thermometer = 19.99
Hydrometer testing = 20
Aluminum pitcher 12.99
PH strips = 7.99
Water conditioners = (chlorine remover, calcium) 20
Funnel = 10
Screen = 2.79
Stainless spoon = 7.99
Mash paddle = 5

Adds up to nearly 1000 dollars for what I feel like is everything I would need to get a decent all grain setup.

I know there's probably some corners I can cut, but for instance how can you possibly have good fermentation temp controller, with investing hundreds in a setup.

Thanks! I look forward to reading over this forum and taking in any knowledge offered!

 

[Spartan300man]

Get a bucket or two and lids from the local bakery, they often give them away. You can drill a hole and use a spigot, then eliminate the need for a siphon starter. Many people on here don't use glass carboys or secondaries.

 

[h22lude]

I know this isn't what you are looking for but personally I would recommend doing extract first. The reason I suggest going extract first is just to get an understand of the brewing process. By all means, if you want to jump right into AG go for it. It definitely can be done. Extract and AG brewing aren't all that different. You had a few steps to AG (heating strike water for mash, do the mash and then sparge). After that, it is pretty much the same process. A lot of brewing is clean up and sanitizing. I'm sure you have heard pro brewers saying they aren't brewers, the yeast are. They are just janitors cleaning up after the yeast. It is very true.

If you have never brewed before and you have never helped a friend brew, you may not like it. You most likely have everything you need to do an extract kit.

You can do this right on your stove with a 4 gallon pot. If you don't have one, you can get a cheap one on Amazon for $30 to $40.

Other than that, you just need a starter kit. I would recommend this one or one like it. It comes with a primary bucket (you don't need secondary), bottling bucket, auto-siphon (which is one of the best tools to have), capper, caps, bottle brush and an intro DVD. Plus you get an extract kit all for $90. Great deal. Throw in a $12 hydrometer and you have what you need.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing/beer-equipment-starter-kits/essential-brewing-starter-kit

So for under $150, you can get into brewing. And the best part is, all of that can be used in AG brewing (maybe besides the $35 pot but having it will allow you do brew indoors during the winter if you live in a cold weather area). If you do go extract and then to AG, none of this would be wasted money as you would use it. I still use all my extract stuff besides my pot which I got for under $20 at a cheapo all purpose store near me.

Another reason I tell people to start with extract is if you brew a few times and research a lot, you start to know what kind of set up you want for AG. Right now you may want a 3 pot system but after brewing a few times you may decide you want a brew kettle and cooler mash tun instead or maybe even a BIAB system with only one pot to clean (brew in a bag).

With all that said, if you still want to jump into AG and go all out (again, nothing wrong with that), you will be spending a good amount of money just because the equipment is larger and more expensive. Instead of a $30 pot and using your stove, you now need a $60 pot and $50 burner. That's $80 extra right there. Then you need a mash tun which you can buy but it would be much cheaper to build yourself with a beverage cooler from HD, valve, some kind of screen or false bottom and some tubing.

If you do go right into AG, I would do a lot of research before you buy anything. A lot of things you can make yourself, like the mash tun, wort chiller and temp controller.

 

[m00ps]

Youll need a hell of a lot more bottles than 48. A standard 5gal batch will get you like 45-55 bottles usually. I'd you should start out with 200 at the very minimum if you want to brew somewhat regularly

Not sure what size it is, but $200 seems very very low for a chest freezer unless you are getting it off craigslist

Id do all grain BIAB and eliminate the need for the mash tun if you are on the fence about pulling the trigger. I started out with BIAB with the intention of going to a traditional 3 vessel system but I wouldnt change now even if someone gave me the equipment

 

[thekraken]

Just to comment on some of your items:

2 glass 6.5 gallon corbay + stoppers = 85
I opted for plastic carboys as they are less fragile and cheaper
chest freezer = 200
You can save a lot of money here buying used on craigslist
dual stage temp controller = 80 dollars
You *can* get this cheaper, if your diy capable you can build a brewpi for half that
10 galon Hot Liqour tank and mash/Lauter tun with false bottom and valves and tubes (kit) = 230
You could go BIAB and avoid a seperate MLT and HLT vessel. I build a 15gal cooler mlt for $50 and don't bother with an HLT
SS Wort chiller (3/8&#8221 + faucet adapter = 75
75 is cheaper than I would have guessed. How many feet? You can diy a copper one with 50' of tubing for about this price
Propane Burner = 50.00
Don't forget your propane bottles. Get two so you have a spare. You don't want to have to go get a refill in the middle of a boil
9 gallon brew pot = 58
Beer bottles 48 = 25
Just keep and reuse bottles from commercial brews you drink.
bottle capper = 12.99
bottle caps = 4.99
bottle rack = 16
You can just use a dishwasher rack instead
bottle filler = 7
Siphon starter = 20.72
Digital thermometer = 19.99
Hydrometer testing = 20
Aluminum pitcher 12.99
PH strips = 7.99
Water conditioners = (chlorine remover, calcium) 20
Funnel = 10
Screen = 2.79
Stainless spoon = 7.99
Mash paddle = 5
Redundant?

I find a digital kitchen scale comes in handy ~$15. Don't forget cleanser and sanitizers. Also, I keep several 5-gal home depot buckets around for various tasks.

 

[h22lude]

Youll need a hell of a lot more bottles than 48. A standard 5gal batch will get you like 45-55 bottles usually. I'd you should start out with 200 at the very minimum if you want to brew somewhat regularly

whats the chest freezer for? I use an stc-1000 to temp control mine at fermentation temps since you cant set a freezer at like 60F. Not sure what size it is, but $200 seems very very low for a chest freezer unless you are getting it off craigslist

If you get 5 gallons of beer, you would need 54 bottles. Most people get a little less unless they did a 5.5 gallon batch. 200 bottles to start may be a little more than he needs. I know what you are saying, more bottles the more he can brew. When I was bottling, I didn't have more than 100 bottles at a time and was fine. No harm in having more though, just looking at cutting upfront costs.

He has a dual stage controller on his list to use the freezer as a fermentation chamber. I bought my chest freezer brand new at Lowes for under $200. A 7 cu ft freezer should fit 2 buckets. I can fit 4 kegs in mine.

 

[beskone]

2 glass 6.5 gallon corbay + stoppers = 85

*Go with some 6 gal PET carboys, I'll never go back to glass for primary and they're cheaper!*

chest freezer = 200

* you can get a 7.1 cubic foot one for less than $170 new, craigslist probably 50-100, maybe even free* Also any refrigerator will work as well, probably easier to find a cheap free one than a chest freezer.

dual stage temp controller = 80 dollars

10 galon Hot Liqour tank and mash/Lauter tun with false bottom and valves and tubes (kit) = 230

*Get an igloo, DIY the ball valve and do a braid ~ $125-150*

SS Wort chiller (3/8”) + faucet adapter = 75

* get copper, more thermally efficient, same cost.

Propane Burner = 50.00
9 gallon brew pot = 58

Beer bottles 48 = 25

* Save and clean your own, no need to pay for glass...

bottle capper = 12.99
bottle caps = 4.99
bottle rack = 16
bottle filler = 7
Siphon starter = 20.72
Digital thermometer = 19.99
Hydrometer testing = 20

Aluminum pitcher 12.99

*you don't have a pitcher laying around you can use? why get a aluminum one, plastic works fine.*

PH strips = 7.99
Water conditioners = (chlorine remover, calcium) 20
Funnel = 10
Screen = 2.79
Stainless spoon = 7.99

* You don't already own a ladle or spoon already?*

Mash paddle = 5

Adds up to nearly 1000 dollars for what I feel like is everything I would need to get a decent all grain setup.

* Yup, this hobby can get expensive fast, but most of the costs are one time. Once you have the gear you're just buying grains, yeast and hops.*

 

[AQUILAS]

If you wanted to get a bit handy and save some money, you don't have to get the $80 temp control you're looking at.

Get an ITC-1000 (same as the STC-1000, but reads both F and C), a project box, a wall outlet, a 10ft replacement cord, and you're set for about $30. Way better than $80.

Though, there's a new dual temp controller out that's already prebuilt for about $35. I think it's still fairly new and people are just catching on to it. So you can save some money that route as well.

 

[brewprint]

Hi guys,

I have never brewed before and don't have much interest in starting with extract. I also don't want to invest in equipment that I may outgrow quickly and have to invest in bigger stuff, Id rather take the hit upfront and save in the long run.

I'm quickly realizing that this can get expensive quick to do right. Here's a first go of what it seems would be a decent setup for an all grain brew.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how to cut cost? It seems pretty hard for me to believe that people can do this right with proper temp control for a couple hundred dollars.

2 glass 6.5 gallon corbay + stoppers = 85 Get 2 6 gallon plastic buckets

chest freezer = 200
dual stage temp controller = 80 dollars Get this only if you want to keg right out of the gate unless you live in the tropics or can't keep your fermentation temps <70


10 galon Hot Liqour tank and mash/Lauter tun with false bottom and valves and tubes (kit) = 230 Complete waste of money. Go no sparge BIAB

SS Wort chiller (3/8”) + faucet adapter = 75 Homebrew International has 3/8 x 50' copper for $50

Propane Burner = 50.00 Get the 220,000 BTU from Homebrewing.org. It will cost $100 but well worth it.

9 gallon brew pot = 58 Get the 12.5 or 15 from Ebay for $80. Don't mess around

Beer bottles 48 = 25
bottle capper = 12.99
bottle caps = 4.99
bottle rack = 16
bottle filler = 7 Get this only if you're trying to save money. As I mentioned above if you're getting a freezer you may as well keg. Just my opinion

Siphon starter = 20.72
Digital thermometer = 19.99
Hydrometer testing = 20 This stuff is cheaper than what you posted

Aluminum pitcher 12.99
PH strips = 7.99
Water conditioners = (chlorine remover, calcium) 20
Funnel = 10
Screen = 2.79
Stainless spoon = 7.99 Why condition your water if you don't know how the beer turns out just as it is?

Mash paddle = 5 Good price

Adds up to nearly 1000 dollars for what I feel like is everything I would need to get a decent all grain setup.

I know there's probably some corners I can cut, but for instance how can you possibly have good fermentation temp controller, with investing hundreds in a setup.

Thanks! I look forward to reading over this forum and taking in any knowledge offered!

See above in bold.

 

[doug293cz]

If you wanted to get a bit handy and save some money, you don't have to get the $80 temp control you're looking at.

Get an ITC-1000 (same as the STC-1000, but reads both F and C), a project box, a wall outlet, a 10ft replacement cord, and you're set for about $30. Way better than $80.

Though, there's a new dual temp controller out that's already prebuilt for about $35. I think it's still fairly new and people are just catching on to it. So you can save some money that route as well.

Just FYI that new dual temp controller is the ITC-308 and it has some issues you might want to know about before buying.

Brew on

 

[AQUILAS]

Just FYI that new dual temp controller is the ITC-308 and it has some issues you might want to know about before buying.

Brew on

Ahh right on. I haven't caught up with that thread since the drama in the early pages of it.

Sucks to hear about it. Seemed like a good idea. Oh well, I'll stick to my ITC-1000.

 

[cbfan87]

Get a bucket or two and lids from the local bakery, they often give them away. You can drill a hole and use a spigot, then eliminate the need for a siphon starter. Many people on here don't use glass carboys or secondaries.

Thanks! I will look into that. I was thinking about using a bucket like this for bottling, and transferring the beer from the corbay to the bucket using a siphon.

I suppose I could just ferment in the same bucket, but for some reason I have I thought that glass would be nicer.

 

[cbfan87]

I know this isn't what you are looking for but personally I would recommend doing extract first. The reason I suggest going extract first is just to get an understand of the brewing process. By all means, if you want to jump right into AG go for it. It definitely can be done. Extract and AG brewing aren't all that different. You had a few steps to AG (heating strike water for mash, do the mash and then sparge). After that, it is pretty much the same process. A lot of brewing is clean up and sanitizing. I'm sure you have heard pro brewers saying they aren't brewers, the yeast are. They are just janitors cleaning up after the yeast. It is very true.

If you have never brewed before and you have never helped a friend brew, you may not like it. You most likely have everything you need to do an extract kit.

You can do this right on your stove with a 4 gallon pot. If you don't have one, you can get a cheap one on Amazon for $30 to $40.

Other than that, you just need a starter kit. I would recommend this one or one like it. It comes with a primary bucket (you don't need secondary), bottling bucket, auto-siphon (which is one of the best tools to have), capper, caps, bottle brush and an intro DVD. Plus you get an extract kit all for $90. Great deal. Throw in a $12 hydrometer and you have what you need.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing/beer-equipment-starter-kits/essential-brewing-starter-kit

So for under $150, you can get into brewing. And the best part is, all of that can be used in AG brewing (maybe besides the $35 pot but having it will allow you do brew indoors during the winter if you live in a cold weather area). If you do go extract and then to AG, none of this would be wasted money as you would use it. I still use all my extract stuff besides my pot which I got for under $20 at a cheapo all purpose store near me.

Another reason I tell people to start with extract is if you brew a few times and research a lot, you start to know what kind of set up you want for AG. Right now you may want a 3 pot system but after brewing a few times you may decide you want a brew kettle and cooler mash tun instead or maybe even a BIAB system with only one pot to clean (brew in a bag).

With all that said, if you still want to jump into AG and go all out (again, nothing wrong with that), you will be spending a good amount of money just because the equipment is larger and more expensive. Instead of a $30 pot and using your stove, you now need a $60 pot and $50 burner. That's $80 extra right there. Then you need a mash tun which you can buy but it would be much cheaper to build yourself with a beverage cooler from HD, valve, some kind of screen or false bottom and some tubing.

If you do go right into AG, I would do a lot of research before you buy anything. A lot of things you can make yourself, like the mash tun, wort chiller and temp controller.

I actually knew that this was probably the best real advice, but hard-headedly I want to dive in.

I am definitely in that researching phase right now.

Thank you!

 

[h22lude]

Thanks! I will look into that. I was thinking about using a bucket like this for bottling, and transferring the beer from the corbay to the bucket using a siphon.

I suppose I could just ferment in the same bucket, but for some reason I have I thought that glass would be nicer.

Buying something because it is nice is great. Nothing wrong with that. My advice on that is just look up the pros and cons before you do that. You may find out that you'd rather have something cheaper over the nicer product because function worked better.

Buckets do let more O2 in than glass. Glass does look nicer and you can see the yeast doing their business which is always fun. Glass is more expensive and a lot heavier. There have been horror stories on HBT of people carrying their carboy and dropped it, breaking the carboy and spilling 5 gallons of beer on the ground. Some have even cut themselves. I do find buckets much easier to clean but that is just me. Every thing you buy will have a pro and a con. 50% of the people will like this item while the other 50% will like another one. No right or wrong. It is up to you to find what you like. Sometimes the only way to find out is to buy the item you think you may like and use it. If you don't like it, you may be stuck with it or you can sell it used and buy something else. We have all been there.

I actually knew that this was probably the best real advice, but hard-headedly I want to dive in.

I am definitely in that researching phase right now.

Thank you!

Absolutely nothing wrong with diving right in. Like I said, the process for extract and AG are essentially the same. A little more goes into AG brewing. More steps, time and more things that are manually controlled that will change the beer (like mash temp). But that is what makes AG fun. Just make sure you know what you are getting into and how everything works. I would hate for you to dive in to AG without a working knowledge of brewing and decide you don't like it because it was too much at first.

Good luck! It is a great hobby. It sucked me in. One day I was watching one of the 6 Brew Masters episodes (sad it didn't last longer) and Sam was talking about his brewing book. I went out the next day to buy it. The day after that I found my LHBS and bought a starter extract kit. From there I went to AG using a mash tun cooler, then to kegging, now I have an all electric automated BIAB set up. You can make it as cheap or expensive as you want. All that matters is you like what you are doing. I love brew days but I love researching for hours just as much.

 

[Gavin C]

pH strips are useless. Go to the brew science forum and read Bru'n water education sections.

If you really want to dive in from the get go and do water analysis and adjustment you need.

1. To know what's in your water (A water report or use RO water)
2. Minerals to adjust (Cheap, don't use chalk or pH5.2 junk, read the common error thread in the all-grain brewing section at the top)
3. A planned target (online software will help work out the additions)
4. An acid source (lactic acid or acid malt in the grist)
5. A pH meter to measure actual mash pH
6. Adjust future mashes as appropriate based on the predicted and actual measures.

My pH meter


Fermentation control for under $200

Lots of All-grain equipment setups to get your head around. If you want to start with all-grain and are looking to keep the initial equipment costs down you'll not go wrong via BIAB. My methods and equipment are outlined in the thread/article in my signature. Might be of some use to you.

Stove top BIAB

Northernbrewer are having a sale on their Megapots which is what I show above all wrapped up. (DIY insulation ~$25)

Don't buy a ton of bottles. I bottled one batch and that was enough. Hated it! Kegging for sure if you've got some money to spend. (Seems like you do). You can dispense with much of the bottling paraphenalia and save money there.

DIY Kegerator

For tubing, SS fittings etc. Don't use NB or other large online HB vendors.
Bargainfittings.com have great prices and services for all that. But there are other great vendors too. That's where I got all my nice stainless steel.

Don't buy an autosiphon if you are using carboys. Get a sterile syphon starter from Morebeer.com A great product. My autosyphon is now obselete.

There are so many ways to approach all grain brewing and tons of fun to be had. My LHBS sell brewsculptures and their own pots with welded fittings. I wish I had known that at the outset. Great prices great products. Might be worth taking a look at your own LHBS too see what they have to offer in the way of competition to the competitive online vendors. (My LHBS also sell online too). I have no affiliation. I'm just a happy customer.

 

[cbfan87]

Just to comment on some of your items:



I find a digital kitchen scale comes in handy ~$15. Don't forget cleanser and sanitizers. Also, I keep several 5-gal home depot buckets around for various tasks.

We actually already have a digital kitchen scale so that works out well, and definately need to get sanitizer. Thats one process I really need to look into more. Im not interested in having my first batch being infected! ha

Thanks!

 

[cbfan87]

He has a dual stage controller on his list to use the freezer as a fermentation chamber. I bought my chest freezer brand new at Lowes for under $200. A 7 cu ft freezer should fit 2 buckets. I can fit 4 kegs in mine.

Correct, I was hoping to be able to have 2 carboys going at once. It's looking like the dual stage temp controller may be a little harder to find that cheap or I will have to make one myself.

Thanks!

 

[cbfan87]

2 glass 6.5 gallon corbay + stoppers = 85

*Go with some 6 gal PET carboys, I'll never go back to glass for primary and they're cheaper!*

For some reason fermenting for weeks in plastic makes me think that it may affect the taste? I suppose its been pretty tested to be a good solution, from what everyone is saying.

* you can get a 7.1 cubic foot one for less than $170 new, craigslist probably 50-100, maybe even free* Also any refrigerator will work as well, probably easier to find a cheap free one than a chest freezer.

Looking at one now at Home Depot for 168

* get copper, more thermally efficient, same cost.

Good info!


* Save and clean your own, no need to pay for glass...

Just went out and bought a couple six packs, to work toward this



*you don't have a pitcher laying around you can use? why get a aluminum one, plastic works fine.*

I suppose I do have a plastic one, so I could do that.


* You don't already own a ladle or spoon already?*

Not a nice long metal one, just cheap plastic ones that are too flexible.

 

[thekraken]

We actually already have a digital kitchen scale so that works out well, and definately need to get sanitizer. Thats one process I really need to look into more. Im not interested in having my first batch being infected! ha

Thanks!

Yeah definitely look into it, cleanliness and sanitization can't be overstated. And don't forget that cleaning and sanitizing are two sperate steps.

 

[Michigan_Wolfman]

Going all grain straight out of the gate is pretty ambitious. I would recommend at the very minimum, one or two canned extract brews in order to get a feel for the overall process of brewing before venturing into all grain. But, whatever you ultimately decide to do, more power to you and happy brewing!

 

[aprichman]

I'd definitely go extract first and keep things as simple as possible. Homebrewing is a ton of work and to be honest it's not for everyone, there's a reason why it's easy to find homebrew equipment on craigslist. Don't go out and spend $1000 on a full all grain setup before you brew a couple of batches.

 

[thekraken]

Given the detail of the first post and the obvious level of effort OP put into research so far I'd bet all grain would be no sweat for them. The upfront cost as an argument against starting all grain is a a good point, but other than that I'd bet OP will be fine. It ain't that hard, just a few extra steps.

 

[doug293cz]

UPDATE on the Ink-Bird ITC-308 (the low cost) dual mode temp controller mentioned earlier in this thread. Problems have been corrected. See here for more info.

Brew on