First thread

[jeff_brew]

I am on the paleo diet and I can't drink grain brew any longer. It's been over a year and Lord knows that I miss a good beer. So, I took up drinking hard cider and am looking into home brew.
First question - I usually see temps should be 65-70 for fermenting. Sometimes I see 65-75. Can I get away with 73-75...house temp? I don't want to spring for a brew house or brew frige on first try. Are there yeasts that work better at the higher temps? And will it work at 75 degrees but not make the best tasting cider compared to lower temps.

Thanks for any advice,

Jeff

 

[tstanonis1]

haven't done cider before but yeast is yeast. it will work yes... the question is what kind of off flavors will you get from the temperatures being outside the recommended range. That I don't know.

there are various was to keep the temp down during the ferment that you can try. A styrofoam box around your fermenter with a bucket of ice would help. may stick your fermenter in a cool dark closet. got an extra window ac? you could use it to make a cool box. even putting your fermentor in a tray of water and duct taping some kitchen towels to the fermentor with the bottoms of the towels in the water. they would wick the water up and then evaporate causing a cooling effect on the fermenter from the evaporation.

it's not just the warm air conditions you should think about. the fermentation process creates heat above the ambient air temp. so just having your fermenter in a water bath would help some. and it would keep the day and night swings in temp from being so dramatic on the yeast. essentially using it as a heat sync.

keep an eye out for people getting rid of old refrigerators. they may not work right for food anymore but with a thermostat added to the outside of them they can sometimes still work good enough for fermenting in the garage. try craigslist or your local facebook talk groups.

 

[wysiwyg]

I've made several 1 gallon cider batches and haven't been concerned with temp, just house temperature. I add 1/2 - 1 lb corn sugar to a gallon with 1/2 sachet of Munich wheat yeast and let it go till it drops completely clear. It's very dry though and I have to back sweeten a bit when serving. Good stuff though! Especially when warmed on a cold winter night!. Look around on the cider forum here, tons of information to guide you in different directions.

 

[jeff_brew]

So while I've seen temperatures stated up to 75, you're saying the more common 65-70 is
really correct and 75 is too high, correct?
If I have to create a brew box, I'll have to give this some more thought whether I want to
even get into it or not. I was thinking of building a separate garage for my tractor and other equipment
and in that case I could create a small brew house. We'll see.
Thanks.

 

[jeff_brew]

I've made several 1 gallon cider batches and haven't been concerned with temp, just house temperature. I add 1/2 - 1 lb corn sugar to a gallon with 1/2 sachet of Munich wheat yeast and let it go till it drops completely clear. It's very dry though and I have to back sweeten a bit when serving. Good stuff though! Especially when warmed on a cold winter night!. Look around on the cider forum here, tons of information to guide you in different directions.

I'll poke around the forums some and see if other folks have been successful at temps above 70 and
if so, then I might do as tstanonis1 suggests and add some insulation. I just wanted to try it out
without dropping a bundle first few times.
I'm sort of hipocritical about the paleo diet since technically I shouldn't be able to drink alcohol
at all, but at the very least I stay away from grain and sugar which means I cannot use corn sugar or Munich wheat yeast. But, thanks for the recipe anyway. I'll have to use honey or some other such. I know the sugar gets eaten up anyway, so again I think it just makes me feel like I'm following the rules a little bit. This diet has been good for me though. I have lost about 50 lbs and more importantly, got off my blood pressure meds. My bp is now better than when on the meds and without the darned side effects.

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Fermentation actually generates heat, as much as 10*F. So with an ambient temp of 70*F, the actuall fermentation temp could be as high as 80*F. I have a tough time with temp control too, I can't brew in summer. I just limit my brewing to the time of year when it's cooler & easier to control those temps. Another couple of weeks & it'll be brew season for me. You might have success doing the same. That being said, there are products to help with just this problem:
http://shop.greatfermentations.com/...-accessories?gclid=CK6EpLKlq8gCFUJufgodtmUPkg

I've never used it, but it looks & sounds like it might work fairly well. You could also use a "swamp cooler" setup with your fermenter. Basically a tshirt or wet cloth over the carbouy & a fan for evaporative cooling. Often people will add frozen water bottles or blue ice to help cool it. You can also just put the carbouy in a container of water & add frozen water bottles a few at a time & replace them as the ice in them melts.
Regards, GF.

 

[Maylar]

Ale yeasts want to be below 70°F. For warmer temperatures choose a champagne or wine yeast like K1V-1116 or EC-1118.

 

[wysiwyg]

I'm sort of hipocritical about the paleo diet since technically I shouldn't be able to drink alcohol at all, but at the very least I stay away from grain and sugar which means I cannot use corn sugar or Munich wheat yeast. But, thanks for the recipe anyway. I'll have to use honey or some other such. I know the sugar gets eaten up anyway, so again I think it just makes me feel like I'm following the rules a little bit. This diet has been good for me though. I have lost about 50 lbs and more importantly, got off my blood pressure meds. My bp is now better than when on the meds and without the darned side effects.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Nice job on changing your lifestyle for better health!

BTW, Munich wheat yeast does not have wheat in it, it is just a strain of yeast that, when it eats sugar converted from wheat starches, gives off flavors associated with wheat beers. Having said that, any yeast strain should align with your diet.

Check out Northern Brewer's cider making kits - while you may not need everything in the kit, it should be a decent low-cost way to dip your toes into cider making without spending a bundle.

Good luck!

 

[jeff_brew]

Fermentation actually generates heat, as much as 10*F. So with an ambient temp of 70*F, the actuall fermentation temp could be as high as 80*F. I have a tough time with temp control too, I can't brew in summer. I just limit my brewing to the time of year when it's cooler & easier to control those temps. Another couple of weeks & it'll be brew season for me. You might have success doing the same. That being said, there are products to help with just this problem:
http://shop.greatfermentations.com/...-accessories?gclid=CK6EpLKlq8gCFUJufgodtmUPkg

I've never used it, but it looks & sounds like it might work fairly well. You could also use a "swamp cooler" setup with your fermenter. Basically a tshirt or wet cloth over the carbouy & a fan for evaporative cooling. Often people will add frozen water bottles or blue ice to help cool it. You can also just put the carbouy in a container of water & add frozen water bottles a few at a time & replace them as the ice in them melts.
Regards, GF.

Thanks Gratus, I didn't realize that the process added that much heat. That might shoot down my plans of putting the setup in a spare room when it gets cold and shutting the heating vent. It's hard to tell around here in north central Florida whether the temps will stay in the 50's or 60's for any length of time. It could just as easily shoot back up to 80's, even in December.

 

[jeff_brew]

BTW, Munich wheat yeast does not have wheat in it, it is just a strain of yeast that, when it eats sugar converted from wheat starches, gives off flavors associated with wheat beers. Having said that, any yeast strain should align with your diet.

Thanks wysiwyg, good to know.

 

[jeff_brew]

Nice job on changing your lifestyle for better health!

BTW, Munich wheat yeast does not have wheat in it, it is just a strain of yeast that, when it eats sugar converted from wheat starches, gives off flavors associated with wheat beers. Having said that, any yeast strain should align with your diet.

Check out Northern Brewer's cider making kits - while you may not need everything in the kit, it should be a decent low-cost way to dip your toes into cider making without spending a bundle.

Good luck!

Ale yeasts want to be below 70°F. For warmer temperatures choose a champagne or wine yeast like K1V-1116 or EC-1118.

I'm assuming the flavor of the end product is different depending on the yeast and temps. Are there some folks who actually shoot for ciders cooked at temps above 70? Few and far between? Or is it more like; if you can't work in temps below 70, then this will at least make hard cider but no guarantee the flavor...

 

[Maylar]

I'm assuming the flavor of the end product is different depending on the yeast and temps. Are there some folks who actually shoot for ciders cooked at temps above 70? Few and far between? Or is it more like; if you can't work in temps below 70, then this will at least make hard cider but no guarantee the flavor...

I haven't personally used a wine or champagne yeast, but consensus around here is that they ferment very quickly and very dry. Most say that the apple flavor gets stripped away and the cider needs longer to age before it's really good. But you'll probably get better results with a wine yeast within its temp range than you would pushing an ale yeast to it's limits.

I don't make summer ciders any more. In my own experience, I've found that slower cooler ferments produce a much better cider. But I also don't age my ciders for a year... I'm looking for instant gratification.

YMMV

 

[jeff_brew]

Looking at chest freezers.
Will a little 5 cu ft model be sufficient for 6.5 gal? Or should
I spring for 7 cu ft ?

 

[jeff_brew]

I haven't personally used a wine or champagne yeast, but consensus around here is that they ferment very quickly and very dry. Most say that the apple flavor gets stripped away and the cider needs longer to age before it's really good. But you'll probably get better results with a wine yeast within its temp range than you would pushing an ale yeast to it's limits.

I don't make summer ciders any more. In my own experience, I've found that slower cooler ferments produce a much better cider. But I also don't age my ciders for a year... I'm looking for instant gratification.

YMMV

I read of some folks aging cider for months and I'm with you; I'd go nuts if I couldn't drink some. I've come to the reality that I really do need a fermenting chamber of some kind if I'm to get into this. Thanks for your comments.

 

[Quaker]

The bulk of off flavor from high temperature occurs during the first stage of fermentation when the yeast are reproducing, done in 18-24 hours. When I home brewed beer in Shanghai I chilled my wort down to 64. With 5-6 gallon batches it took 24-36 hours before the temp came back up to a 70 degree ambient in an AC cooled room. So if you're going to just ferment 1 gallon jugs at a time, chill them in the fridge first. Pull them out and let warm to 60 degrees, then pitch the yeast. If you can place that in an insulated cooler, this should be sufficient to avoid off flavors.

 

[BlackInk]

You're over thinking this. You live in FL? You go to the beach? You have a cooler?

If you have a cooler big enough for a one gallon jug, there's an easy solution.

Two days before "brewing" take two one gallon milk jugs of water and put them in your freezer.

Day of, throw one in your cooler.
Then go mix your cider, yeast, honey and whatever else up.
Put that one gallon jug of cider in the cooler with the jug of ice.
Before you go to bed, swap out the jug of ice with the other frozen jug of ice.

Just keep switching out jugs of ice every evening and it will stay cool enough. If you like the results of your first few batches, then think of investing in a refrigerated system.

 

[jeff_brew]

Thanks for your input and suggestions. I just like to be thorough before jumping into something. I might do the cooler method with a gallon to start just to get a feel for it. But I'm more of an automatic kinda guy. I own a Bradley smoker if that helps.
So I'd be getting a floor freezer pretty quickly.
If anyone has a suggestion for what is a good 7 cu ft. standing freezer to buy for conversion, I'd be curious. Lowes has some off brand for about $188.
Will two 6.5 fit in there with that hump on one side. They all have that I guess to house the compressor?