First sour

[murphyslaw]

This past weekend I made a batch of an American wheat beer and split it into two fermenters. One got 001 and a vial of white labs lacto brevis. I had a starter for the 001 but not the 672.

I don't plan to add any other bugs to the sour, because while my wife and friends love sour beer, the funk is too weird for them. I may try fruit, though.

I plan to let it go three weeks or so in a bucket then rack it to a keg to condition. In American sour, mike t says to let it go 6 to 12 months, tasting along the way, but my impression was that he contemplated adding bugs and dregs and whatnot. If I'm not adding anything like that, is a long conditioning like that still beneficial in terms of developing nuances?

I'm not in any rush, I just want to be sure there's a benefit to waiting. Thanks!

 

[radwizard]

I can get a quick sour beer tasting good in one month. That is a beer without Brett.

I would have pitched more Brevis since it is the only source of LAB, but honestly I don't know if it really would matter- I have used only Brevis with no starter (co-pitched) and it had a good level of acidity.

You might want to consider your IBU's. Brevis is noted as being more hop tolerant, but I think the process will be slower with higher IBU's. What were your IBUs on the Wheat?

On my quick sours I don't use any hops at all on the hot side. I usually add a little dry hop at the end and call it a beer.

 

[murphyslaw]

Thanks for the response.

The recipe had 23 IBU's for what was supposed to be 7g post-boil volume, but I ended up with 8g post-boil, and then put 3.5g into the sour bucket and diluted with 1.5g boiled water. So if I'm doing the math right, that should have only been about 14 IBU (and SG of 1.046).

 

[RPh_Guy]

Curious whether this will develop any acidity ... please let us know

I'm assuming you're using a ferm temp somewhere less than 70F. The IBU, temperature, co-pitching, and lack of starter are all working against your Lacto.

http://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?43694-Souring-with-WLP672

 

[murphyslaw]

Curious whether this will develop any acidity ... please let us know

I'm assuming you're using a ferm temp somewhere less than 70F. The IBU, temperature, co-pitching, and lack of starter are all working against your Lacto.

http://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?43694-Souring-with-WLP672

Hmm...I was going off of American Sours, which suggested a beer in the 1.040s and no more than 20 IBU, with a regular yeast and a wild yeast. I did pitch at my normal WLP001 temp--about 65--and moved it up to 68 after 3 days or so. I'll kick it up to 72 or so now.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Hmm...I was going off of American Sours, which suggested a beer in the 1.040s and no more than 20 IBU, with a regular yeast and a wild yeast. I did pitch at my normal WLP001 temp--about 65--and moved it up to 68 after 3 days or so. I'll kick it up to 72 or so now.

I don't have the book so I can't look at the recipe ... However I think when you say "wild yeast" he is talking about something other than just Lacto (which is bacteria, not yeast).
I haven't personally used L. brevis, so all I can say is I'd be surprised if it sours under those conditions. Just an educated guess; most of the acid from Lacto should be produced within a few days to weeks (not months), so I'd suggest to take a sample and see whether it's sour enough for your taste at that point.

Using just Lacto is a lot different than using Brett (yeast) and Pedio (bacteria) with or without Lacto. You can still pitch those if you want it to be sour; I think sooner is better than later. It will take time. I suppose check the book for more clarification on what organisms he suggested..? In any event you should still get a nice wheat beer

Hope this helps, cheers!

Edit: an alternate approach for future beer with a clean sourness is to use a kettle sour method. You'll get only sour with zero funk and it's straightforward to target a particular pH. Plus it only takes a couple days longer than a regular beer and the IBU can be anything.

 

[toddo97]

You can try adding some non-pasteurized bottle dregs if you're not getting the acidity you want. If you're willing wait several months, adding pedio and brett will give you more sour and acidity. You can look at different brett strains to see which ones give less funkiness.

 

[radwizard]

I do think you will get some sourness here, although your IBUs are a pretty high. Just give it a taste when your primary is done. If you don't get it as sour as you like, and you don't want any Brett, you can brew up a batch (or half batch) with no hops and Lacto P. That will get pretty sour, and you can just blend them and package it up. Something to consider anyhows...