First Shot at Cider...No fermenting action

[NorthWoods]

Hi all, I followed nukinfuts29's drunken Emu recipe (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=287701) and started it Sunday. Monday night comes around and there is nothing happening in the carboy. No positive pressure in the S airlock. I realized I added my yeast to the cider/ sugar solution before it had cooled. Great, killed my yeast. Went back to the store, bought another packet of Nottingham, hydrated in warm water and dumped it in. 36 hours later, still nothing. I'm fermenting at 66 degrees (room temp).

What am I doing wrong?

 

[Maylar]

What juice did you use?

 

[NorthWoods]

What juice did you use?

Regular Pepin heights apple cider. https://pepinheights.com/cider/nutrition/

 

[DurtyChemist]

Worrying. Take a gravity reading before you say you don't have fermentation occurring. Also 66F is a little cold for cider. Typically cider yeast likes to be closer to 70 so it will be a nice slow easy going fermentation.

 

[mucci2k]

I have a lid to one of my buckets that doesn't seem to seal right so I never get airlock movement, I only trust the gravity readings to know if it is done or not.

 

[dmtaylor]

66 F is not too cold. I ferment all my ciders in my garage like lagers in the 50s or even the 40s, even with Notty or US-05. Takes longer but comes out better.

But you do need to take gravity readings over the course of many days to know for sure if it's fermenting. 36 hours is not long enough to know for sure. Anyway cider fermentation can be invisible to the naked eye, unless you look real close then you might be able to see it just fizzing. It will often not form a krausen like beer would because there's not enough protein in it.

I'm sure it's fermenting. It's just going slower and more quietly than you expected. Yeast doesn't care about your expectations. They do what they want at their own pace.

 

[stella_tigre]

There has been some discussion of troubles with yeast, in particular Notty, on other threads. Date code on the packet? I have not tried my second pack yet to see if there is really an issue. The batch that didn't work (home pressed juice) got switched to a different type of yeast, which took off quickly. Hopefully it is really going, as dmtaylor suggests.

 

[NorthWoods]

My airlock should be working, my last wine was a rolling bubble for a few days.

I'll take a gravity reading tonight before I dump the batch. I was expecting visual fermenting action like wine/beer batches in the past.

 

[NorthWoods]

There has been some discussion of troubles with yeast, in particular Notty, on other threads. Date code on the packet? I have not tried my second pack yet to see if there is really an issue. The batch that didn't work (home pressed juice) got switched to a different type of yeast, which took off quickly. Hopefully it is really going, as dmtaylor suggests.

I'll take a look tonight and report back

 

[Roadie]

It should be fermenting unless they add sorbate to the cider. Check with hydrometer vs OG you started with. Cider doesn't get krausen like beer does so don't expect it to look the same.

 

[stella_tigre]

Would not dump even if it's not percolating yet - which only the hydrometer will tell you for sure! But even if it's not going yet, if your sanitation was sufficient you should be able to get it going, maybe s-05 or another clean ale yeast.

 

[Paps]

leaky seal?
don't dump.......repitch.
or as i think somebody mentioned...no preservatives.

 

[NorthWoods]

Update: sodium benzoate is used as a preservative. Would that be an issue?

I check the gravity yesterday. Starting gravity was 1.072. Gravity now reads 1.075. So I don't know what the hell is going on.

The original Nottingham packet is gone. The second packet reads yeast lot #: 1080486V exp 08/2016. The packets were bought from the same store a day a part so could easily be from the same lot.

I have a packet of EC 1118 yeast at home. If we can't resolve anything, I'm going to throw that in. If nothing happens, I'm dumping. I've spent too much $ on this to go buy more yeast at the store.

 

[dmtaylor]

Yes, benzoate can kill your Notty. Wine yeasts can tolerate preservatives more than beer yeast can. Try the EC 1118 yeast. I bet it will take off a couple days after that.

 

[Maylar]

You will probably not be able to get that cider to ferment without a great deal of trouble. Sodium benzoate and / or potassium sorbate have to be avoided.

 

[stella_tigre]

Well that's a bummer, and would certainly mean the yeast may not be to blame. BTAIM I think I am going to check my remaining packet of Notty, which is the same date code, and hope it's not a bad batch of Notty. I've got two gallons of Indian Summer AJ sitting around looking forlorn.....

 

[60acresbrewclub]

Update: sodium benzoate is used as a preservative. Would that be an issue?

I check the gravity yesterday. Starting gravity was 1.072. Gravity now reads 1.075. So I don't know what the hell is going on.

The original Nottingham packet is gone. The second packet reads yeast lot #: 1080486V exp 08/2016. The packets were bought from the same store a day a part so could easily be from the same lot.

I have a packet of EC 1118 yeast at home. If we can't resolve anything, I'm going to throw that in. If nothing happens, I'm dumping. I've spent too much $ on this to go buy more yeast at the store.

Peservatives are designed to prevent bacteria from reproducing and inhibit their survival. I imagine it is possible for the yeast to live for a short while in sodium benzoate but it could not produce a hard cider.
You should read the sticky...https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=508303

 

[scottyb710]

Yeah only get it it's vitamin c was added did mine 6 hours ago already got movement in my airlock.

 

[NorthWoods]

About a week later after I added EC1118. No observable fermentation, no change in gravity. I'm pronouncing it dead and dumping.

 

[Yooper]

About a week later after I added EC1118. No observable fermentation, no change in gravity. I'm pronouncing it dead and dumping.

Yes, the benzoate is a killer and means it wouldn't ferment. That makes the juice "self stable" indefinitely, so it is not a good one to use.

If the words "sorbate" or "benzoate" are on any juice label, don't use those. They are preservatives that are almost impossible to overcome with good results.