First Kolsch, temperature advice

[wsmith1625]

I brewed my first Kolsch last Sunday (6/24) and pitched Wyeast 2565 Kolsch Yeast at 58°. Fermentation started between 12-24 hours later and was pretty active. Things are slowing down now and I'm thinking of ramping up the temperature this weekend. Not planning on adding heat, but letting it naturally rise to 68°. Seems reasonable to me, but being my first Kolsch, I was just wondering if anyone had anything to add. Thanks!

 

[Jag75]

I've never used that strain before so I'm not sure . I think let it rise will be just fine. When using a Lager yeast I slowly bump it up daily but if I'm not mistaken this is an ale yeast that can give you a crisp lager feel . If im thinking of the wrong yeast disregard, but I think your fine letting it naturally come up from 58f

 

[wepeeler]

Just brewed my second Kolsch in a month. I went with Imperial Dieter yeast and started her off at 60 for about 4 days, then 65 for 24 hours, then back to 60 for the remainder. I find a cool fermentation keeps the beer ester free and the 65 is enough for a diacetyl rest. Normally I leave my Kolsch in the fermenter for 21 days, but I'm not entirely sure that's necessary. I recently bought a Tilt hydrometer and today is Day 5 (including brew day), and I'm almost at FG. I'll let it ride at least another 7 days after the gravity stabilizes for any additional cleanup.

By the way, I LOVE Imperial Dieter yeast for Altbier and Kolsch. Amazing yeast.

 

[day_trippr]

I use 2565 for my kolsch recipe and run it at 60°F wort temperature for four days, ramp to 66°F over two days, stick there for two days, then ramp down to fridge temperature, which takes at least two days just due to thermal volume (10 gallon batches) vs fridge capacity. Three weeks minimum chilling @~34°F on CO2 before it's bright and ready...

Cheers!

 

[Jag75]

How would you guys compare that yeast to k97?

 

[day_trippr]

I've only used 2565, and it produces such a nice result with hallertau hops that I have't been motivated to try anything else

Cheers!

 

[Immocles]

I brewed my first Kolsch last Sunday (6/24) and pitched Wyeast 2565 Kolsch Yeast at 58°. Fermentation started between 12-24 hours later and was pretty active. Things are slowing down now and I'm thinking of ramping up the temperature this weekend. Not planning on adding heat, but letting it naturally rise to 68°. Seems reasonable to me, but being my first Kolsch, I was just wondering if anyone had anything to add. Thanks!

I've used 2565 four times over the last 14months or so. Actually, my next brew will be a kolsch using it again. With the exception of the first time, which I had zero control in the middle of a Minnesota February, I set and forget at about 58F as well. I've never ramped the temp up, but its such a common practice that I can't see it being detrimental. My only knock on that yeast is that it takes forever to drop out.

By the way, I LOVE Imperial Dieter yeast for Altbier and Kolsch. Amazing yeast.

Oh? The coming brews for me will be experimenting with 1007 and 2565 in various formats

How would you guys compare that yeast to k97?

Curious on that as well. I have a packet in my beer fridge, but haven't really written up a recipe for it yet. Might have to sneak that in for a comparison soon

 

[wepeeler]

I've used 2565 four times over the last 14months or so. Actually, my next brew will be a kolsch using it again. With the exception of the first time, which I had zero control in the middle of a Minnesota February, I set and forget at about 58F as well. I've never ramped the temp up, but its such a common practice that I can't see it being detrimental. My only knock on that yeast is that it takes forever to drop out.



Oh? The coming brews for me will be experimenting with 1007 and 2565 in various formats



Curious on that as well. I have a packet in my beer fridge, but haven't really written up a recipe for it yet. Might have to sneak that in for a comparison soon

I much prefer Dieter to 2565. To me, it's much cleaner, and very crisp if fermented in the low 60s. I only used 2565 once, and I wasn't a huge fan. YMMV

 

[Immocles]

Probably worth my while to look into at some point. 2565 seems to be one of those yeasts that folks either really like, or really dislike. Not a lot of folks in the middle ground.

 

[Jag75]

K97 turned out good . I'll try that imperial since I really like their stuff . Does that Imperial Dieter need a starter ?

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, it is rumoured Imperial Dieter is the same strain as wlp029...which I haven't used, either...

Cheers!

 

[Immocles]

Ooof. Then maybe I won't try it out haha. I'm not a huge fan of 029 in kolsch. Drops like a stone though!

 

[wsmith1625]

Thanks all. I think I'm going to connect the ferm wrap and bring it up to 66 for a few days, then drop it down to lager temps as day_trippr suggested. My only concern is the suck back when dropping the temp. I'm less worried about the sanitized water getting in the beer, but air oxgenating it. Any advice?

 

[day_trippr]

I agree, dropping down from fermentation temperatures is an issue, one that has caused all kinds of consternation (see "Star San Suck Back") along with greater appreciation of the more subtle damage done by oxidation. I have a system that deals with that (basically, a constant 0.4 psi CO2 connected to carboy caps) but there are other - even commercially available - methods to not pull air into the fermenter. Like this one:

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ccguardianv3.htm
While a lightly hopped beer like a kolsch may not suffer the horrible browning of an neipa exposed to the same amount of "air", it's still going to ding it, especially if it's going to hang around for long, so best to avoid that whole thing if possible...

Cheers!

 

[Immocles]

Another option is to lager after packaging. I only bottle, so its a bit more of an annoying process, but lots and lots of folks transfer to the keg and lager.

I'm not set up for any real cold crashing, but I have noticed that when I start to ramp the temperatures down, I get to about 52ish before the pressure in my airlock starts to switch the other direction.

 

[wsmith1625]

Thanks for all the good advice. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do about the suck back problem, but I know and understand the solutions out there. I'm gonna have to sleep on this and figure out my plan. Thanks again

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw...this is the 2nd keg of a Kolsch batch I brewed way back on May 26, 2019. While I enjoy it as well, I really keep it on hand for visitors (mostly of the feminine persuasion) that aren't into my collection of neipas But visitors have been pretty much zero in the last four months, so it's lingered.

But it still tastes exactly the same as always, and aside from the condensation (it's humid here) and the poor focus (my fault) still looks pretty good, too...

Cheers!

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I brewed my first Kolsch last Sunday (6/24) and pitched Wyeast 2565 Kolsch Yeast at 58°. Fermentation started between 12-24 hours later and was pretty active. Things are slowing down now and I'm thinking of ramping up the temperature this weekend. Not planning on adding heat, but letting it naturally rise to 68°. Seems reasonable to me, but being my first Kolsch, I was just wondering if anyone had anything to add. Thanks!

You are right on the mark. Let it rise for a few days then chill. I use that yeast for all my kolsch. Let it lager as near 32° F as you can for three weeks (if you can). Since Kolsch should be crystal clear I like to add a fining such as gelatin as soon as it is cold and then let it lager and clear.
My preferred method is to drop the temperature of the fermenter to around 32 then add the gelatin, let it set for 3 to 4 days then transfer to a keg, carbonate and lager.
I hope this helps.
Prost

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Thanks all. I think I'm going to connect the ferm wrap and bring it up to 66 for a few days, then drop it down to lager temps as day_trippr suggested. My only concern is the suck back when dropping the temp. I'm less worried about the sanitized water getting in the beer, but air oxgenating it. Any advice?

If it has finished fermenting then cap it off and chill it. Or if for some reason you can't then use a sanitized container with vodka. You know a vodka soaked paper towel is a good sanitized filter.

 

[dmtaylor]

How would you guys compare that yeast to k97?

K-97 is similar and probably related to 2565. I believe K-97 is actually almost identical to 1007. All have a long standing krausen that takes many weeks to fall unless gelatin is added and even then takes a while to clear. With respect to flavor... they are all similar. I would have to try a side-by-side experiment to understand the real differences, and I have not done that yet.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

How would you guys compare that yeast to k97?

I used k97 for a Kolsch once just once. I didn't like it. It was a good beer but not a top notch Kolsch bier.

 

[wsmith1625]

You are right on the mark. Let it rise for a few days then chill. I use that yeast for all my kolsch. Let it lager as near 32° F as you can for three weeks (if you can). Since Kolsch should be crystal clear I like to add a fining such as gelatin as soon as it is cold and then let it lager and clear.
My preferred method is to drop the temperature of the fermenter to around 32 then add the gelatin, let it set for 3 to 4 days then transfer to a keg, carbonate and lager.
I hope this helps.
Prost

Well I applied heat and brought it up to 66 in a few hours rather than slowly. Fermentation immediately started becoming more active but seems to be slowing already this morning. My plan is to leave it at 66 for 2 days, then cold crash and possibly add gelatin (never did that before either). Before I cold crash, should I be at final gravity? When I transfer to a keg, would I leave the yeast cake or do I need it in the keg? I'm sure there's plenty of yeast in suspension, but I don't want to make the wrong assumption. Thanks!

 

[Jag75]

Well I applied heat and brought it up to 66 in a few hours rather than slowly. Fermentation immediately started becoming more active but seems to be slowing already this morning. My plan is to leave it at 66 for 2 days, then cold crash and possibly add gelatin (never did that before either). Before I cold crash, should I be at final gravity? When I transfer to a keg, would I leave the yeast cake or do I need it in the keg? I'm sure there's plenty of yeast in suspension, but I don't want to make the wrong assumption. Thanks!

Yes you should be at FG before cold crashing . Leave the yeast cake and sludge behind when you transfer. Just make sure if you cold crash you are properly set up to combat suckback .

 

[dmtaylor]

I used k97 for a Kolsch once just once. I didn't like it. It was a good beer but not a top notch Kolsch bier.

Ditto. It's alright, but a little yeasty in flavor even after becoming crystal clear, and not "Kolschy".

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Well I applied heat and brought it up to 66 in a few hours rather than slowly. Fermentation immediately started becoming more active but seems to be slowing already this morning. My plan is to leave it at 66 for 2 days, then cold crash and possibly add gelatin (never did that before either). Before I cold crash, should I be at final gravity? When I transfer to a keg, would I leave the yeast cake or do I need it in the keg? I'm sure there's plenty of yeast in suspension, but I don't want to make the wrong assumption. Thanks!

Yes you want to be at FG then chill for a few days. Pick up a box of unflavored gelatin at the grocery store take 3/4 cup water boil it let it cool to just very warm then stir in 1/2 packet or so of the gelatin until completely dissolved then add to fermenter and gently swirl, (don't want any oxygen) cap and let set for 3 to 4 days then transfer to keg leaving everything else behind. You may lose a bit of beer but you should have beautifully clear Kolsch. Then force carbonate over a few days lager a bit and drink. Of course all utensils are sanitized.

 

[wsmith1625]

Great.

Yes you want to be at FG then chill for a few days. Pick up a box of unflavored gelatin at the grocery store take 3/4 cup water boil it let it cool to just very warm then stir in 1/2 packet or so of the gelatin until completely dissolved then add to fermenter and gently swirl, (don't want any oxygen) cap and let set for 3 to 4 days then transfer to keg leaving everything else behind. You may lose a bit of beer but you should have beautifully clear Kolsch. Then force carbonate over a few days lager a bit and drink. Of course all utensils are sanitized.

Sounds good. Thanks!

 

[jlinz]

Anybody have a good schedule for fermenting and then lagering in the keg instead of in the fermenter? I’m going to use the wyeast kolsch yeast.

 

[wepeeler]

Anybody have a good schedule for fermenting and then lagering in the keg instead of in the fermenter? I’m going to use the wyeast kolsch yeast.

I would imagine it would be as simple as kegging when a stable FG has been reached. Mine has been fermenting for 13 days, but it reached FG on day 5. My intention was to leave it for another week so the yeast can clean up. Shouldn't take more than a few days. (?) Keg as usual and set to serving temps. Let it condition in the keg.

 

[jlinz]

I would imagine it would be as simple as kegging when a stable FG has been reached. Mine has been fermenting for 13 days, but it reached FG on day 5. My intention was to leave it for another week so the yeast can clean up. Shouldn't take more than a few days. (?) Keg as usual and set to serving temps. Let it condition in the keg.

That's what I'm thinking. I guess I would just leave it in the keezer without gas for a few weeks. What is a good temp for that yeast before putting it in the keg to condition?

 

[wepeeler]

That's what I'm thinking. I guess I would just leave it in the keezer without gas for a few weeks. What is a good temp for that yeast before putting it in the keg to condition?

I would put it on air. At least a little to keep any air from getting in through the gaskets. But yeah, you should be fine conditioning in the keg. Heck, I might even try it.

 

[jamesbo]

Just brewed my second Kolsch in a month. I went with Imperial Dieter yeast and started her off at 60 for about 4 days, then 65 for 24 hours, then back to 60 for the remainder. I find a cool fermentation keeps the beer ester free and the 65 is enough for a diacetyl rest. Normally I leave my Kolsch in the fermenter for 21 days, but I'm not entirely sure that's necessary. I recently bought a Tilt hydrometer and today is Day 5 (including brew day), and I'm almost at FG. I'll let it ride at least another 7 days after the gravity stabilizes for any additional cleanup.

By the way, I LOVE Imperial Dieter yeast for Altbier and Kolsch. Amazing yeast.

Hi, interesting as you write on the "Imperial Dieter" yeast. I am looking for a more suitable yeast for my Kolsch, I am looking for cleanliness, therefore less esters.

Have you had the opportunity to make other Kolsch with the same yeast? I look forward to your updates.

Thank you

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I would put it on air. At least a little to keep any air from getting in through the gaskets. But yeah, you should be fine conditioning in the keg. Heck, I might even try it.

On air or CO2?

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Great.


Sounds good. Thanks!

Did you try this, how did it turn out?

 

[wsmith1625]

Did you try this, how did it turn out?

I did exactly what you said and it came out great! My 5 gallon batch is almost gone.

Just some notes on how it went. This was my first time cold crashing and I didn't have a setup to protect against suck back. What I did was drop the temp a few degrees at a time and when the airlock started to pull the Starsan, I cracked the lid open a bit to equalize pressure. I hated doing this because I knew I was introducing oxygen, but I didn't have another option at the time. I was really afraid that I oxygenated the beer and it would be terrible, but I was wrong. The finished beer was delicious.

I started sampling after a week in the keg and the yeast flavor was a bit stronger than I liked. Definitely had a white wine flavor. But as it sat in the keg, it mellowed out and now it's damn near perfect. Also, the beer was crystal clear. I never used gelatin before, but it worked great. I want to do another batch, but I have a few other recipes I want to do next.

I'll use this same method for my next kolsch. Thanks again!

 

[wepeeler]

Hi, interesting as you write on the "Imperial Dieter" yeast. I am looking for a more suitable yeast for my Kolsch, I am looking for cleanliness, therefore less esters.

Have you had the opportunity to make other Kolsch with the same yeast? I look forward to your updates.

Thank you

Imperial Dieter is the best Kolsch yeast I've used so far, by far. I ferment fairly low for the first few days (62), then raise temp for a diacetyl rest (65ish). Never had any issues. I've been able to harvest from each batch, and it has not disappointed me yet. Ask @camonick what he thought of my kolsch

On air or CO2?

CO2

 

[camonick]

^^ Listen to this guy. I’ve only made one Kolsch before and it didn’t even compare to his. He makes a damn good NEIPA too.

 

[jlinz]

I would put it on air. At least a little to keep any air from getting in through the gaskets. But yeah, you should be fine conditioning in the keg. Heck, I might even try it.

Doing this right now as we speak. I’ll let you know how it comes out in a couple days.

 

[jlinz]

Finishing the lager process in the keg as discussed turned out really well. Basically this means making a Kolsch is the same process as making any beer. The only difference is I fermented at 60 degrees. It’s not crystal clear, which might be because it is the Wyeast yeast, but I gotta say, may be my best one yet, and I like that this makes it so making a Kolsch is no more difficult than any other beer.

 

[day_trippr]

tbh, kolsch should be a simple beer. 2565 (or your favorite alternative) run at 60°F with just enough Hallertau to make the otherwise rather bland grain bill interesting and you're good to go...

Cheers!

 

[couchsending]

I’m on my 16th batch at Kolsch over the last 2 years I think. I’ve used 2565, wlpo29, Dieter, 1007, Gigayeast Kolsch GY021, 2575, 003, Conan, etc. Basically anything and everything. Latest batch used the East Coast Yeast Kolschbier strain and it’s by far the best. It’s supposedly and old Brewtek strain that Al Buck got from a yeast bank. There’s no other commercial equivalent to it.

It has the wine like character of 2565 but flocculation that’s even better than wlp029 or the equivalents from all the other yeast banks.

Up until this my favorite yeast was actually Conan fermented at 56 with a lager pitch rate. Fermented out in 4 days even at 56. Touch of sulfur from the low temp fermentation but insanely clean. Way better than the wlp029 derived offerings.

Kolsch is all about semantics. The conditioning is what’s key. Slow cooling, long cold conditioning, natural carbonation, etc. These are the steps to focus on in order to make truly great Kolsch (provides you’ve got the obvious water profile, mash schedule, and fermentation temp dialed). Sadly there’s probably only a handful of breweries in the US that care to take the time to do it right.